D&D 5E Spellcasters and Balance in 5e: A Poll

[Crimson Longinus]

Stopping spells with magic swords and armor is a pretty bog standard fantasy tropes. That's some level 5 appropriate stuff IMO (expend reaction, gain advantage on save). Far more so than casters flinging spells in a single round, which is a trope of D&D, and... like nothing else. Hell, even D&D novels don't have the heroes casting spells much, probably because the writers realize how lame it is. .

Simply don't level yours up if you want to remain a wand caddy for the real heroes.

This again seems to indicate the level of dissatisfaction with the game than will realistically never be addressed. So perhaps stop being mad about it and go find a game better suited your tastes?

 

[Vaalingrade]

I didn't remember that, not having played with the 3e rules in a very long time, but it's irrelevant anyway. In the 3e MM, which was available for play on the first day, Half-Dragons were expected to be allowed(at least at some tables) as characters.

Behold! The entirety of the rules for playing half dragons in 3e!

Edit : image removed for hugeness. Basically the 'rules' are that Half dragons with a 12+ CHA are sorcerers usually.

So... no. They aren't actually playable.

That's why there was a lot of outcry for playable dragons/half dragons, which was followed by a series of 'now shut up' 'options' including LA and Races of Dragon - seemingly purposefully inferior options made seemingly to be an answer to preclude the question.

 

[Don Durito]

I didn't say that. I asked what out of combat abilities a Fighter would have based on Fighter. In response I was given a lot of combat reasons, so I pointed that out. I've seen almost nothing offered up that is Fighter themed and that applies much to the social and exploration pillars.

See here then. That was the third time in this very thread I gave this example.

 

[Garthanos]

Oh, and the other classes for the most part don't have their good stuff for all the pillars, either. Classes don't really reach first level until they hit 3rd.

To me that is 5th ... there is just too big of capability jump at level 5 you entered heroic stage instead of apprentice tier. (most melee combatants offensive ability arguably doubling over night)

 

[Don Durito]

I can’t grasp why this class wouldn’t have 1d6 hp and no armor. Makes no sense. I have the same problem with the artificer.

Eh. Clerics are full casters and get 1d8 hit-points and armour,

Long gone are the days when this was because they traded off spellcasting. Bards also get 1d8. !d8 is basically the default level for everyone. Wizards and Sorcerers get less, but that's not really for good design reasons, that's because there's a guy on the roof playing a fiddle.

 

[Garthanos]

Without stretching far you could also give abilities like the Tiger Warrior Training ability from Exalted which lets you turn peasants into soldiers after a week (great for Seven Samurai type scenarios),

hmmm sounds like a martial practice I made up I think I called it Sensei (Master Trainer) or something like that

 

[Sithlord]

Eh. Clerics are full casters and get 1d8 hit-points and armour,

Long gone are the days when this was because they traded off spellcasting. Bards also get 1d8. !d8 is basically the default level for everyone. Wizards and Sorcerers get less, but that's not really for good design reasons, that's because there's a guy on the roof playing a fiddle.

Clerics are trained combatants not priests in a robe. I see nothing about a class named scholar that warrants combat training. Very few scholars in any university are combat trained. A few out there but not the norm at all, far from it.

 

[Garthanos]

Overall physical prowess for one. To be that capable in a fight requires a substantial amount of general athleticism.

More broadly I think most of the issues with out of combat potency for martial characters could be solved by fixes to the skill/proficiency system. That does probably mean spilling some ink to either define what skills are capable of or at least examples that make it clear that results of 25+ are supposed to be suitably impressive.

Oh most definitely making sure the astounding is allowed to and encouraged reasonably to not be just the guy at your local gym.

 

[Don Durito]

Clerics are trained combatants not priests in a robe. I see nothing about a class named scholar that warrants combat training.

Oh for gods sake! Just admit you dislike the idea on principle.

It's D&D, fun and game balance trumps realism by a factor of 100 to 1. What about Bards - when they go to bardic college to they have special warrior training sessions? (In case they need to deal with jealous partners maybe?)

But try this. Scholars require privilege to get their education. That privilege in an arisocratic society generally assumes some degree of warrior training. It's expected. The fact that ultimately they resisted that training doesn't mean they never got any.

Or, if being able to fight is part of the design of the class, then of all the scholars in the world, the ones you can play are the one's that can fight. Just, as, of all the priests in the world, the ones you can play are the ones that have some degree of combat training.

Done! We can now continue our day, having resolved this deeply vexing question, and knowing all is right with the world.

 

[Vaalingrade]

So what should I Fighter be able to do out of combat?

Allow me to introduce Elliot Spencer from the TnT show Leverage.

Elliot is, in the show's parlance, The Hitter, the group's muscle whose job it is to beat on problems the rest of the team can't hack, steal, or talk their way past.

It would be really easy for the writers to make him a dumb, useless brute only good in a fight like a D&D Fighter. But these are some of the best pulp writers in the game, so he's not.

Elliot has been a hitter all over the world and in dozens of conflicts of varying size and type.

He can identify weapons by their sound or the shape they hold under clothing.
He speaks almost as many languages as the team Grifter for the same reason.
He's been in so many fights that he has a great sense of when someone has hostile intent from body language and mannerisms.
He's been muscle for so many bad guys that he knows security layouts and standard patrol routes.
He also knows the base operations of those types of organizations.
He cooks.
He sings.
He's good at covert communication.

In five seasons, he lost three fights. And no one tried to balance his badassery by making him incompetent at the other ways he contributes to the team.

Also, he never just stands there like a lump and punches ceaselessly, but baby steps.