Spells that make you go "Why do I show up?"

[timbannock]

I've seen posts from time to time (and immediately recall an article by AEG's jim pinto) about spells that put characters out of commision such that they essentially are the kind of spells (or effects) that make it seem like the DM says "Thanks for showing up to my game, now stop playing." Cited ones were web, hold spells, fear effects, etc.

Axing them entirely seems drastic, and would definitely hurt some schools of magic in particular. Moreover, it's not so bad when PCs have access to these abilities, as they are often completely viable options to make a fight more interesting (using magic to "grapple" an enemy spellcaster, etc.).

Has anyone made any modifications to these spells? If so what? How has it affected play (and/or the use of certain creatures with these abilities)?

And on the more extreme end, has anyone done a whole lot of reworking of spell lists to get a certain feel? I've only recently purchased Spell Compendium, and it's a daunting task now (moreso than before) to really go through and toss out things I don't like/don't think are balanced/don't fit into my world.

Ok, so these questions are about as general as you can get about spells, but yeah, there it is

 

[BiggusGeekus]

In MMORPGs they're called "crowd control" spells/abilities.

I think they're awesome, but you do have to be smart about how you use them.

 

[I'm A Banana]

A lot of the time, measuring durations in rounds or "one encounter" means that the player only sits out part of it. Another feature would be moving the mechanic: a character may be put out of commision, and while he is, the player rolls for something else (a monster? another character?).

You could also do more with regards to what the spell does: limit it in certain ways. You can't physically attack OR you can't move OR you must use a greater action to do so OR you need to do something you don't want to...

Keep the player rollin' dice, is the big thing. Don't ever tell them "you loose a turn."

 

[Aramax]

I try to avoid using them,the object of the game is to have fun and sitting doing nothing is not fun when you already have to deal/w going unconcious from damage

 

[SteveC]

I usually follow the rule for the new hold person: if a spell effect puts you out of the combat, you get a new save each round until you make it and can escape its effects.

Yes, this does put the nerf on many of those spells, but it seems to have done the trick for making them less annoying for my players.

--Steve

 

[Plane Sailing]

I've not seriously considered house-ruling them, but an idea for fear might be that instead of automatically running away you *can* still act, but you have (say) a -6 penalty on all attacks and skill checks, and casters must make a concentration check to cast a spell.

In other words, you get to do -something- if you wish, even though your effectiveness is drastically curtailed.

In a way they are low-level equivalents of the death spells though - fail a save and you are out of the encounter (and that is a good thing in that it gives spell users an option other than ablate away all their hit points to stop them).

Web, on the other hand, drastically needs an overhaul - since you can *make* your save against web and still get screwed. How many spells do that?

 

[robberbaron]

I might consider giving a save each round against Fear but imposing a penalty (-4?) to checks for the remainder of the spell's duration.
Hold and Web I use sparingly - I think I have webbed the party once and about the only Hold came from a Beholder.

I think my overall view is that, if the PCs use a particular spell, then I am allowed to do so as well, though I do lob a pre-emptive strike in occasionally.

Oh, add Prismatic Wall to the list. Can't wait to chuck one at the PCs.

 

[sirwmholder]

If you are going to let the PC's save each round I would increase the DC by atleast +2 each round they struggle against it until half the duration is spent then start lowering the DC by 2.

Example: Fear cast by a level 7 Wizard with a 18 Int

Round 1 DC = 18
Round 2 DC = 20
Round 3 DC = 22
Round 4 DC = 24
Round 5 DC = 22
Round 6 DC = 20
Round 7 DC = 18

This may cause a little more book keeping but it means that spells that previously allowed only one save don't get entirely hosed.

Just a thought,
William Holder

 

[DM_Jeff]

I use the spells as-is in both my campaigns and simply give the out-of-commission player something to do. I have both a summoner and a necromancer, who have summoned beasties and undead to continue controlling. And the others I either give a couple NPC cards to pick up or one of my monster sheets and let them have fun smacking down on their buddies. I just keep 'em busy is all. And hey, they're the perfect person to help look up stuff to keep the game moving.

-DM Jeff