D&D (2024) Spells. What needs adjusted?
- Thread starter mellored
- Start date
Hm. I don't have a problem with damage spells, in fact, given how many hit points monsters can have, I often find they probably could do more. The fact that damage synergizes with what the non-casters are typically doing is a big plus.
Hard control; things that leave enemies unable to do anything at all. These are problematic in every sense of the word. Hindering enemies actions and movements are exactly what I'd expect battlefield control to consist of in a game that wants melee combat to be the primary form of conflict resolution. Hypnotic Pattern making enemies stand around going "derrrh pretty lights" while you kill them one at a time seems a bit much. I prefer things like Web, Slow, or Sleet Storm.
I agree, summoning hordes is bad. A side effect of bounded accuracy is that more attacks are more useful than one strong attack in lots of situations. All summons should bring in a single, reasonable body that can suck up some hits, but never multiple bodies or spellcasting of it's own. I include Animate Objects here as well.
Out of combat spells. Things that grant a great deal of narrative power, especially on days where you're not adventuring (due to having depleted your Hit Dice on a previous day, or just downtime in general).
This gives casters a huge advantage on what they can do, and their ability to make money, gather information, and even stockpile resources without any real cost or risk can cause a lot of problems to a gamemaster who is not prepared for it. On the one hand, I like that these options exist, but on the other, they can be disruptive and make other players wonder why they don't have similar options.
Buff spells. I'm used to playing where a caster throws buffs on their fighters to make them more effective. But as a reaction to the 3.x era (I assume), buffs are conservative and often require concentration, directly competing with other, better spells casters can use. I would like to see this design space expanded upon; if the Wizard is using their godlike power to make the Fighter better, the disparity between classes can become far less of a factor. You just have to make sure they aren't buffing themselves, lol.
Hard control; things that leave enemies unable to do anything at all. These are problematic in every sense of the word. Hindering enemies actions and movements are exactly what I'd expect battlefield control to consist of in a game that wants melee combat to be the primary form of conflict resolution. Hypnotic Pattern making enemies stand around going "derrrh pretty lights" while you kill them one at a time seems a bit much. I prefer things like Web, Slow, or Sleet Storm.
I agree, summoning hordes is bad. A side effect of bounded accuracy is that more attacks are more useful than one strong attack in lots of situations. All summons should bring in a single, reasonable body that can suck up some hits, but never multiple bodies or spellcasting of it's own. I include Animate Objects here as well.
Out of combat spells. Things that grant a great deal of narrative power, especially on days where you're not adventuring (due to having depleted your Hit Dice on a previous day, or just downtime in general).
This gives casters a huge advantage on what they can do, and their ability to make money, gather information, and even stockpile resources without any real cost or risk can cause a lot of problems to a gamemaster who is not prepared for it. On the one hand, I like that these options exist, but on the other, they can be disruptive and make other players wonder why they don't have similar options.
Buff spells. I'm used to playing where a caster throws buffs on their fighters to make them more effective. But as a reaction to the 3.x era (I assume), buffs are conservative and often require concentration, directly competing with other, better spells casters can use. I would like to see this design space expanded upon; if the Wizard is using their godlike power to make the Fighter better, the disparity between classes can become far less of a factor. You just have to make sure they aren't buffing themselves, lol.
Zubatcarteira
Now you're infected by the Musical Doodle
Yeet Shield into the stratosphere.
Spells that deal damage over time probably need to be limited to when a creature moves into them with their speed/action/reaction, like with opportunity attacks, or start their turn there. Knocking people in and out of Spirit Guardians or through Spike Growth does some crazy stuff.
Yeet the conjure spells and animate objects.
Add AC and HP to the force spells like Wall of Force and Forcecage, both should be concentration.
Yeet Simulacrum into the sun.
Yeet True Polymorph and Shapechange into a black hole.
More to do with the Saving Throw system, but them targetting six saves is too much when they just don't scale at all. A level 20 character can easily be disabled by even CR 1/2 casters with the right spells.
That's all I can think of at the moment.
Spells that deal damage over time probably need to be limited to when a creature moves into them with their speed/action/reaction, like with opportunity attacks, or start their turn there. Knocking people in and out of Spirit Guardians or through Spike Growth does some crazy stuff.
Yeet the conjure spells and animate objects.
Add AC and HP to the force spells like Wall of Force and Forcecage, both should be concentration.
Yeet Simulacrum into the sun.
Yeet True Polymorph and Shapechange into a black hole.
More to do with the Saving Throw system, but them targetting six saves is too much when they just don't scale at all. A level 20 character can easily be disabled by even CR 1/2 casters with the right spells.
That's all I can think of at the moment.
Threy need to bring back SR:Yes & SR:No spells.
Uni-the-Unicorn!
Hero
What does this mean? What are SR spells?
Benjamin Olson
Hero
I'm basically happy with the balance of 5e spells. My priorities for 5.5 spells (if I had any intention of buying a 5.5 product) would be to implement broader and more interesting uses of upcasting mechanics, and to tweak a few spells that, whether good or bad, don't really live up to their intended use (for example, while Animate Objects is a very powerful spell, I would like to see it incentivizing animating the random objects in the room you're in more, rather than almost always so overwhelmingly favoring animating a fistful of coins or whatever carried around for the purpose).
NaturalZero
Hero
This is the one thing, IMO, that seems completely borked about the system. It feels like an early, first-draft spitball idea for how saving throws could work before being tossed out for something that works better. Potentially having 4 out of your 6 saving throws never scale feels busted.
It impacted a lot of things & pressured the party casters towards reciprocity during big fights. Generally conjuration spells were SR:no but had lower boom than equivalent evocation spells that were almost always SR:yes. debuff spells varied but save or die/save or lose spells were often SR:yes while save or suck were often SR:no
UngeheuerLich
Legend
All spells need to be adjusted for default saving throw does not succeed.
All one save and suck spells need to have more saving chances added.
All one save and suck spells need to have more saving chances added.
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