spells you think are the wrong level

I find this thread somewhat amusing from my 1e perspective, because 3e has weakened or tossed out completely so many spells whose previous-edition versions were actually useful. You'll get no sympathy from me in suggesting spells are too low level... :) Never mind that the risk of using certain spells has also been taken away (e.g. teleport), and that you can relatively easily cast while in combat, and most spells resolve when cast (no more casting time during which you can be interrupted)...spellcasters have never had it so good!

In fact, I'd like to see some spells' power jacked up. First thing: take off all damage caps. If a spell does d6 damage per level, then it should do d6 damage per level regardless whether your level is 5th or 50th. (this would solve some of the nerfed-evokers problems also) Second thing: make some spells harder to save against either by putting a straight minus on the save or by using different save mechanics for select spells to break out the save from the class and level...or by having no modifiers whatsoever apply to the roll, for a particularly hard-to-resist spell (sleep vs. low-level types would be a good candidate here)...you just roll the dice, period.

Raise Dead is fine where it is, mainly because the game needs such a mechanic. Teleport is fine mainly because so little can be carried (though I'd like to see the small chance of teleporting into solid rock and dying be put back in; even with a small risk, people will think twice before using it) Planeshift is fine, though this silly business of showing up 5-500 miles away from intended destination needs to go (why would the spell *always* miss?). To prevent use as a travel spell, just have it only take you to where you last were on that plane, or the nearest safe substitute...simple solution. :)

There's one exception: I'd like Commune to be more informative, but jumped up to 8th or 9th level as a spell. Nothing ruins the mystery more than a few well-placed Communes...

Now, whether all the spells the game has are worth keeping...that's another question entirely. :)

Lanefan
 

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Elemental said:
However, a Maximised Orb of Cold will do more damage (90) than an Polar Ray from a level 20 caster (70 average), has a secondary blinding effect and it's level 7. Oh, and it ignores SR.
I agree - the orbs are exceptionally good. My idea of a fix is make them simply ranged attacks instead of ranged touch. Since they ignore SR, I treat them as magically created (but real) objects.
Elemental said:
If you've got two metamagic feats, a maximised + empowered Scorching Ray (a level 7 spell) will do 72 + (half of 12d6) fire damage. More rays mean more miss chances, but also more chances to crit, so that about cancels out.
True, but I believe that Polar Ray's strength comes from delivering its damage in one go. That means that Cold Resistance is less effective and you're very likely to force a massive damage save.
 

While I'm not overly fond of the current conjuration based orbs, 15d6 max on an RTA is hardly out of line for a 4th level spell. And that makes Polar Ray pretty pathetic, especially since it has no secondary effect.
 

Huw said:
I agree about the metamagic. However, I don't get "effectively helpess". What mage carries more than 10lb of gear outside their backpack? Even if you bump them into overloaded, they can still chuck spells. You've just stopped them running away.

Well, a staff weighs 4 lbs.

and the crossbow most wizards carry as a ranged weapon weighs an extra 4 lbs.

And their spell book weighs 3 lbs, though that might be in the backpack... but no self-respecting wizard would ever risk dropping it. And their spell component pouch weighs 2lbs.

so, that's 13 pounds without taking any scrolls, potions, or other equipment into consideration.

My last wizard had 30 lbs of gear out of his pack, including some armor (enchanted to reduce the spell failure chance to 0)
 


I present Freedom of Movement and Death Ward. FoM provide a wide range of immunities to a wide range of attacks (from grapples to a imagined sub-sect of spells), while DW renders the signature special attacks of an entire type of monsters impotent. There is only one spell that provides as powerful as an immunity, and that's Mind Blank. It's a steal at 4th level!

I propose that Freedom of Movement shall grant a capped bonus (suitably high, of course) to oppose grapple checks and SR to resist all spells is currently nullifies, while Death Ward should provide a Protection From Energy-style barrier, absorbing negative levels at 5 points per level.

Then longer lasting spells that provides that same blanket immunity should be reinstated at 7th or 8th level. Maybe 6th if some other limiting factor is imposed, perhaps.
 


Foresight as a ninth level spell... You can't be suprised, and gain a small insight bonus on Reflex saves and AC. This spell should be... sixth... maybe seventh level.

Later
silver
 

Michael Silverbane said:
Foresight as a ninth level spell... You can't be suprised, and gain a small insight bonus on Reflex saves and AC. This spell should be... sixth... maybe seventh level.

Later
silver


Foresight would suck as a 4th level spell. Its probably the most screwed up effect to level spell published. +2 insight to reflex and AC on yourself only? Whoopty crap.
 

Shade said:
And the nail in the coffin for me is that it only affects humanoids, so the monsters can't up their own size to keep things balanced.

Nothing in the rules saying the monsters can't come up with their own version that works on them. In fact nothing saying they can't research the area effect one so that suddenly the group of 8 ogres standing around become HUGE and scare the poop out of the adventurers.

DS
 

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