Spiked Chain Fighter Rogue advice needed please

We tend to fight loads and loads of humanoids and bipedal armed critters. Fights with outright monsters tend to be limited or reserved for "special" encounters.

As to the darkness, our rogues, if they are doing their job, tend to do a lot of scouting, almost always indoors or underground. If you are a nightblind human, having Darkvision cast on you is almost a pre requisite unless you are basically just a fighter who has sneak attack. :p

We're doing Return To The Temple of Elemental Evil and I imagine at some point I will find myself in the dark and wishing I could see. :)
 

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Fighter Rogue Spiked Chain

Well ... these characters spam the net :)

I had a barbarian rogue in my group who went the long way of the Spiked Chain. Though I don't like Prestige classes, I allowed to take some abilities of the chainmaster as feats.
His disadvantages: Not as many feats. Advantages: More hitpoints. Fast movement. Rages. Uncanny dodge. More skillpoints.

About the Improved Trip or trip attacks with the chain... I wouldn't advice this. You usually end up losing your chain every second or third time you try it.

Disarm: rocks.

Combat Reflexes: A must.

Race: Human for the feat and rogue skill points.

Finessing the Chain: No. Keep dex and str at 16 and rather lower Con a bit. Then raise str later.
4 AoOs are enough. If you encounter more small ones, you'll toast them next round with a full attack action.

One question anyone: Didn't your DM rule move silently penalties for the Spiked Chain? I did :)
Same as chainmail at least.
 

Spiked chain character do seem the rage, however my group and I have never used one. I just wish the Master of Chains (or whatever the prestige class from S&F is called) was better. Some of the abilities are really cool like giving up reach to get a double weapon, others are just dumb like the rattle the chains for a fear effect. Any one got an Alt version? I'd really like to see a more mundane version without the stupid spell effects. Many of S&F prestige classes are that way, to much suprenatural for the mundane fighter. It just doesn't fit.
 

What are the stats on the Duom? I believe it has the same 5' and 10' threat range, which is the key to the Spiked Chain and the reason it is an EWP skill.

If there are move silently penalties on Spiked Chain, there would need to be hide penalties on any non-collapsable large weapons like a greatsword or glaive :p

Our group is very much a traditional D&D set. The fanciest thing out of 3rd edition we've had is a half orc barbarian. Woohoo! Livin' on the edge! This spiked chain (or duom) fighter rogue will definitely be a walk on the wild side for our old fashioned group of geezers.

Please remember, if the suggestions are for me in particular, you have to keep in mind that this is a Rogue who just happens to have a few levels of fighter. I can't take fighter prestige classes or abandon my rogue skills for more than the minimum levels of fighter I'm taking. Now, if we're talking about spiked chains in general, then of course all bets are off. :)

Thanks again for the replies folks. I really appreciate it. Game day is tomorrow :)
 

I didn't much like the Maser of Chains prestige class; it didn't really seem to play off the chain's strengths, and it didn't fit my character's personality - "who needs spells, anyway".
 

re

Crothian said:
Spiked chain character do seem the rage, however my group and I have never used one. I just wish the Master of Chains (or whatever the prestige class from S&F is called) was better. Some of the abilities are really cool like giving up reach to get a double weapon, others are just dumb like the rattle the chains for a fear effect. Any one got an Alt version? I'd really like to see a more mundane version without the stupid spell effects. Many of S&F prestige classes are that way, to much suprenatural for the mundane fighter. It just doesn't fit.

Since I don't use PrClasses: Simply give him some special abilities that he can buy as feats. If you happen to build a balanced chainmaster PrClass... gimme a call :) But I would prefer feats.

Kwyn: Well.. the barbarian rogue was a proposal :)

As for the jingle bells... Yeah I know large weapons should be hard to hide. I sometimes use those too :)

Kwyn: Think about asking your DM to allow that special ability to use the chain at close quarters as double weapon. Or use it to entangle someone. Or something else.
 

Aye, the Barbarian suggestion is interesting. I like half orcs, even though they don't come out well in terms of pure power (imho). If I did Half Orc Barb 4/Rogue x I could see this happening

S: 18
D: 14
C: 14
I: 11
W: 10
CH: 8


Then I could pump strength as I went along and be a brutal damage dealer even without sneak attack. Eventually instead of improved disarm I could look at knockdown due to my average dmg in non sneak attack situations would be more consistently around 10 points. I'd never be able to go whole hog on the crushing bruiser template though because I'd end up falling short of being able to do cleave/great cleave until very late if at all.

Darkvision, better mobility, rage, stacking evasion with rogue lvls.

Feats would be a bit painful though

1) Expertise
2) None
3) EWP Spiked Chain
4) None - +1 Strength (19)
5) None
6) Combat Reflexes
7) None
8) None - +1 Strength (20)
9) Knockdown?

Less fancy and less versatile and my skills would suffer due to reduced INT and lower Dex modifiers for my important ones, but I could use my Barb levels to add points to some skills that my fighter levels wouldn't give me.

But it's another option, so thanks for the suggestion!
 


Turds.

With all the revisions I'm losing track of my feat requirements :)

I'm unwilling to drop down to no con or dex bonus, so it looks like the Barb version is unworkable unless I lose expertise which is one of my favorite feats for rogues. We always end up in situations where the rogue gets isolated by the bad guys and needs to pour on the AC. Lack of that capability or the failure to recognize when to fight defensively has cost us a couple of our rogues already :/
 

This is the Prestige Class I am using

The Black Chains
The Black Chains are members of the city's thieves guild but operate as a self contained group. They seek to maintain the status quo of the city. The guild has learned any major disruption to the city's normal routine affects the guild, usually to its detriment. The Black Chains operate from a militant stance to control and guide any major upsets to the city. Plague, invasion or other events are addressed by the Black Chains. They travel outside the city and may join groups of adventurers and other organizations that one would not normally associate with the thieves guild but a Black Chain will still seek to control the group to their own ends ie the Guild's ends. Those in the guild recognize a Black Chain by their darkly colored spiked chains.
Since the Black Chains are a more militant arm of the thieves guild they sometimes act as shock troopers for the guild in keeping the guild strong and dealing with splinter thief guilds or those that do not "tow the line" for the guild. Members of the Guild are often trained/groomed for the Black Chains.
Most Black chains are trained fighters and rogues though some other classes can advance into this prestige class it is unusual.

Requirements
BAB : +7
Skills : Tumble 5 Ranks, Bluff 5 Ranks, Gather information 5 Ranks
Feats : Exotic Weapon (Spiked Chain), Weapon Focus (Spiked Chain), Expertise ; Improved Trip or Improved Disarm
Alignment: Any Non-Lawful
Other : +2d6 in sneak attack.
Class skills : Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Innuendo (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silent (Dex), Profession (Int), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex)

Skill Points : 6 + Int Modifier.
Hit Dice : 1d8
Starting Feats : May take Weapon Specialization with Spiked chain using a normal Feat.

Bab : As A Rogue
Hit Dice 1d8
Saves Good Reflex, Others poor

Abilities :
1 - Disarm & Trip bonus / Sneak Attack +1d6
2 - Climb Fighting / Challenged Tumble
3 - Extended Tumble / Improved Feint / D&Tb +2
4 - Sneak attack +2d6 / Double Chain
5 - Rogue Special Ability / D&Tb +3
6 - Canny Focus
7 - Sneak Attack +3d6 / Increased Critical / D&Tb +4
8 - Rogue Special Ability
9 - Improved Canny Focus / D&Tb +5
10 - Sneak Attack +4d6

Disarm & Trip Bonus - On Trip and Disarm attacks, when contesting against opponent gain a bonus equal to +1 for each odd level of Black Chain, So +1 at 1, 3, 5, 7, 9. This bonus only applies when using a Spiked Chain or Flexible weapon (chain).
Sneak Attack - Works as Rogue Sneak attack and stacks.
Climb Fighting - Suffers no penalties when climbing and fighting. Opponents gain no advantage. (Works as Master of Chains Climb fighting)
Challenged Tumble - When someone attempts to Tumble through an area threatened by the Black Chain they make a normal tumble roll but still suffer an attack of opportunity. If the Black chain can make one ie has not performed their limit this round or is not flat footed (though combat reflexes allows an attack in this case) etc. The Tumble roll or the normal AC, which ever is higher, is the AC the Black chain must hit during this attack of opportunity. (Example - A rogue tumbles around a Black Chain, he normally has an AC of 18 but rolls a Tumble check at 23. The Black Chain can roll to hit an AC of 23 even though this would normally be a successful tumble)
Extended Tumble - This allows the tumble movement to increase from 20 feet to 30 feet but cannot exceed the Black Chain's normal movement rate.
Improved Feint - Feinting using the Bluff skill becomes a Move equivalent action instead of a Standard action. (As per Gladiator)
Double Chain - The character can use their Spiked chain as a double weapon and gains the Ambidexterity and Two weapon feat when doing so. The threat range for the spiked chain drops to 5 feet when the weapon is used in this manner for that round.
Rogue Special ability - The Black chain may choose one of the Rogue Special abilities normally gained by a 10th level Rogue.
Canny Focus - By focusing their mind on a single pursuit/task the Black chain can add their Intelligence modifier to a Saving throw, Skill, Base attack, Armor class or Stat check as a circumstance bonus. Used as a free action and lasting a round ( or perhaps more than a round for some skill use at the GM's discretion ie for skills requiring more than one round (such as disable device) to be reasonably executed but seldom more than one roll in any case). It is usable once per level in Black Chain per day.
Increased Critical - Add 1 to the Critical Range of the Spiked chain, stacks with Improved critical.
Improved Canny Focus - May now apply the Bonus to two separate rolls in a round as a Free action and number of uses per day increases by 3 Plus positive Wis modifier (Reflecting the will power required to focus on a task)

Hope this is of interest if not sorry for the wasted space.
 

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