RigaMortus
Explorer
Isn't there also a +4 from the Weapon Size?
Spiked chain + Imp. Trip + Combat Reflexes + Enlarge Person
- Thread starter heliopolix
- Start date
Isn't there also a +4 from the Weapon Size?
heliopolix
First Post
RigaMortus said:
On disarm attacks, yes; Trip attacks, no.
two
First Post
What people are saying in a roundabout way is --
YES. It's too much.
That guy gets 4 AOO's a round, plus has improved trip and etc.
Before being enlarged, it's "broken" in straight melee (he owns any other non-tripping non-reach opponent). After enlargement, bye bye.
By far the most overwhelming 2nd level build out there.
So yeah, you definately DO have to make different/strange encounters (a standard encounter will be a cakewalk). That's why people are saying use reach, missile weapons, cover, etc.
By the way, this is a good tipoff that a given character is overpowered, i.e. the GM is forced to change that way the game is played, every battle. "Out of the book" combats are a joke, etc. It's legal, it's just disgusting. Particularly for 2nd level.
This particular tricked out 2nd level fighter, even before enlargement, can be expected to handle 3-4 sword-n-board 2nd level fighters. By himself. At the same time. After enlargement, with a reach of 20, plus more strength etc. Gross. I've seen these guys in action; really makes non-reach fighters look stupid.
YES. It's too much.
That guy gets 4 AOO's a round, plus has improved trip and etc.
Before being enlarged, it's "broken" in straight melee (he owns any other non-tripping non-reach opponent). After enlargement, bye bye.
By far the most overwhelming 2nd level build out there.
So yeah, you definately DO have to make different/strange encounters (a standard encounter will be a cakewalk). That's why people are saying use reach, missile weapons, cover, etc.
By the way, this is a good tipoff that a given character is overpowered, i.e. the GM is forced to change that way the game is played, every battle. "Out of the book" combats are a joke, etc. It's legal, it's just disgusting. Particularly for 2nd level.
This particular tricked out 2nd level fighter, even before enlargement, can be expected to handle 3-4 sword-n-board 2nd level fighters. By himself. At the same time. After enlargement, with a reach of 20, plus more strength etc. Gross. I've seen these guys in action; really makes non-reach fighters look stupid.
Wait. What?two said:
It's not as if you have to change the bloody rules or anything. There's a reason that there are rules for such unused options as spells and missile weapons in the core books. You're not "changing the way the game is played" in any way, shape or form. The game is played using melee, missile and spell combat. That's the way it's designed.
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
What challenges a fighter like that?
1. Rogues can tumble. No AoOs him.
2. Other fighters with reach weapons. Try a group of enemy fighters with glaives or ranseurs. Or just ordinary orcs with longspears. He'll still be able to hit them normally but he won't be getting AoOs.
3. Raging orc barbarians with a 20 starting strength (equivalent to a human with a 16--not unreasonable), 24 when raging. In general, high strength creatures like raging barbarians will be problematic for a trip fighter.
4. Quadrapeds. Wolves, Worgs, etc are difficult to trip because of the +4 bonus they get to oppose the trip check.
5. Monks. Tumble in to close with the fighter then use Improved Grapple to grapple him.
6. Ordinary fighters using missile weapons.
7. Spellcasters. A Ray or Enfeeblement or Reduce Person (to negate the Enlarge Person) will really ruin a trip-fighter's day.
8. Small corridors. Since he will have to squeeze in order to fit through a five foot hallway, he'll have trouble using the enlarge trick there. And, if you make the corridor even smaller, the DM could rule that spiked chains won't work in them since they seem to require a lot of space.
9. Kytons. OK, they're not CR 1 but they're a spiked chain wielder's worst nightmare.
Trip fighters are a very effective build in 3.5 and reach fighters are as well. Combining the two is even more effective--especially when the rest of the party chips in with bull's strengths and enlarge persons. However, like all character types, they have their weaknesses.
1. Rogues can tumble. No AoOs him.
2. Other fighters with reach weapons. Try a group of enemy fighters with glaives or ranseurs. Or just ordinary orcs with longspears. He'll still be able to hit them normally but he won't be getting AoOs.
3. Raging orc barbarians with a 20 starting strength (equivalent to a human with a 16--not unreasonable), 24 when raging. In general, high strength creatures like raging barbarians will be problematic for a trip fighter.
4. Quadrapeds. Wolves, Worgs, etc are difficult to trip because of the +4 bonus they get to oppose the trip check.
5. Monks. Tumble in to close with the fighter then use Improved Grapple to grapple him.
6. Ordinary fighters using missile weapons.
7. Spellcasters. A Ray or Enfeeblement or Reduce Person (to negate the Enlarge Person) will really ruin a trip-fighter's day.
8. Small corridors. Since he will have to squeeze in order to fit through a five foot hallway, he'll have trouble using the enlarge trick there. And, if you make the corridor even smaller, the DM could rule that spiked chains won't work in them since they seem to require a lot of space.
9. Kytons. OK, they're not CR 1 but they're a spiked chain wielder's worst nightmare.
Trip fighters are a very effective build in 3.5 and reach fighters are as well. Combining the two is even more effective--especially when the rest of the party chips in with bull's strengths and enlarge persons. However, like all character types, they have their weaknesses.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Kazuel said:
No, no, "TPK". It's an acronym.
-Hyp.
