Spiritual Weapon issues

the Jester said:
But it has an 'effect,' not a 'target' entry. Yes, you choose a target for the SW's attacks, but you always choose a target for an attack. [/i]

Ah. "Target" was rather a wrong terminology. The caster designate one "opponent" (though we may call that opponent as a target of SW's attack). But anyway, game mechanic wise, the size or mass of SW is not defined. Also, you don't need to (and better not to) care about where the weapon actually is at certain moment.
 

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Shin Okada said:
Also, you don't need to (and better not to) care about where the weapon actually is at certain moment.

Is this explicitly laid out, though?

After all, the SW has an armor class. Sure, it's explicitly for use against touch attacks, but that's prolly because it's immune to physical damage. In fact, it even has an explicit size- Tiny.

Edit: don't you need to know its location if you're going to target it, if nothing else to adjudicate the effects of cover?
 

the Jester said:
Is this explicitly laid out, though?

After all, the SW has an armor class. Sure, it's explicitly for use against touch attacks, but that's prolly because it's immune to physical damage. In fact, it even has an explicit size- Tiny.

Edit: don't you need to know its location if you're going to target it, if nothing else to adjudicate the effects of cover?


Hmm. You seems right about this point. The location of a spiritual weapon must be known if someone want to target it. But unfortunately, the description of the Spiritual Weapon spell does not define it. So it is up to each DM. It is a rule hole.

And still, even if a SW is in some certain square, it does not mean it blocks someone's move. It is not a creature. It is not an object. It has no defined size, dimension, mass, weight and such.
 

A spiritual weapon doesnt have a "square", and it doesnt have a move speed.
The line "The weapon always strikes from your direction" means it's just a force effect between the caster and the assigned opponent.
can anyone give a good reason against this houserule? :
"a Spiritual Weapon threatens it's assigned opponent"
 

The SW can occupy the same square as its caster even if the caster is being threatened - something an ally cannot do.

The only thing you need to know about the SW is the square it is in and that only changes when the caster so designates it.

Spiritual Weapon
Evocation [Force]
Level: Clr 2, War 2
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Magic weapon of force
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
A weapon made of pure force springs into existence and attacks opponents at a distance, as you direct it, dealing 1d8 force damage per hit, +1 point per three caster levels (maximum +5 at 15th level). The weapon takes the shape of a weapon favored by your deity or a weapon with some spiritual significance or symbolism to you (see below) and has the same threat range and critical multipliers as a real weapon of its form. It strikes the opponent you designate, starting with one attack in the round the spell is cast and continuing each round thereafter on your turn. It uses your base attack bonus (possibly allowing it multiple attacks per round in subsequent rounds) plus your Wisdom modifier as its attack bonus. It strikes as a spell, not as a weapon, so, for example, it can damage creatures that have damage reduction. As a force effect, it can strike incorporeal creatures without the normal miss chance associated with incorporeality. The weapon always strikes from your direction. It does not get a flanking bonus or help a combatant get one. Your feats or combat actions do not affect the weapon. If the weapon goes beyond the spell range, if it goes out of your sight, or if you are not directing it, the weapon returns to you and hovers.

Each round after the first, you can use a move action to redirect the weapon to a new target. If you do not, the weapon continues to attack the previous round’s target. On any round that the weapon switches targets, it gets one attack. Subsequent rounds of attacking that target allow the weapon to make multiple attacks if your base attack bonus would allow it to. Even if the spiritual weapon is a ranged weapon, use the spell’s range, not the weapon’s normal range increment, and switching targets still is a move action.
A spiritual weapon cannot be attacked or harmed by physical attacks, but dispel magic, disintegrate, a sphere of annihilation, or a rod of cancellation affects it. A spiritual weapon’s AC against touch attacks is 12 (10 + size bonus for Tiny object).

If an attacked creature has spell resistance, you make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against that spell resistance the first time the spiritual weapon strikes it. If the weapon is successfully resisted, the spell is dispelled. If not, the weapon has its normal full effect on that creature for the duration of the spell.

The weapon that you get is often a force replica of your deity’s own personal weapon. A cleric without a deity gets a weapon based on his alignment. A neutral cleric without a deity can create a spiritual weapon of any alignment, provided he is acting at least generally in accord with that alignment at the time. The weapons associated with each alignment are as follows.
Chaos: Battleaxe
Evil: Light flail
Good: Warhammer
Law: Longsword,

Now as I read it the only reason for the touch attack AC is for determining whether or not certain spells can affect it as it can't be harmed by physical attacks.
 

Felnar said:
A spiritual weapon doesnt have a "square", and it doesnt have a move speed.
The line "The weapon always strikes from your direction" means it's just a force effect between the caster and the assigned opponent.
can anyone give a good reason against this houserule? :
"a Spiritual Weapon threatens it's assigned opponent"

Yes. The text in the PHB (not included in the SRD) specifically states that the SW does not get a flanking bonus nor help a combatant get one.


Pretty much ruins the threatening concept, IMO.
 

Well, but I'm not concerned about threatening- I'm wondering if an enemy can move through its square?

Also, does it count as an obstruction for purposes of charging?

Those are the two issues I find problematic...

Perhaps, if it's Tiny, it only takes up 1/4th of a square (as a tiny creature would)?
 

the Jester said:
Well, but I'm not concerned about threatening- I'm wondering if an enemy can move through its square?

Also, does it count as an obstruction for purposes of charging?

Those are the two issues I find problematic...

Perhaps, if it's Tiny, it only takes up 1/4th of a square (as a tiny creature would)?

At least, the descriptive text does not say that SW creates some barrier, obstacle, cover, difficult terrain and such. It also does not give SW measurable size or dimension. So basically, there is no written text which support that it blocks charging or movement of creatures. It could be Tiny or smaller, always moving, or just avoid anything other than designated target.
 

Well, but I'm not concerned about threatening- I'm wondering if an enemy can move through its square?

Also, does it count as an obstruction for purposes of charging?

Those are the two issues I find problematic...

Does a great sword stuck in the ground prevent a character from charging through the square?

Does the same sword when at a distance of 10' above the ground (e.g., flying)?


The real question you need to figure out is does a weapon take up space? Since teh SW is treated just like a weapon of its type for most effects (that being tiney does pose a quandry though).

Can a character charge through a threatened square? IIRC yes but they are subject to an AoO if they exit the threatened square. The reason I bring this up is becasue the threatened square is essentially "occupied" only be the weapon (especially applicable for a reach weapon).
 

Thinking about this, if the weapon's size is tiny, I'd probably think that it shares a square with whatever it is attacking. If the enemy took up more than one square, it would be in the closest square to the caster. Seems like this would clear up any blocking issues and the like.
 

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