D&D 5E Split the Assassin from the Rogue back into its own class

[Parmandur]

I want more classes.

If it were up to me I'd split the Rogue at least 3 ways.

Assassin
Thief
Scholar

But I am a lot more creative in mechanical design than the average D&D fan. Even more than many hardcore fans. So I doubt my true preferences would ever catch one. That's whyI'm only gauging the one that existed first.

I think the Class/Subclass mechanic really takes away the need for expanding the Class list too much: between the PHB, Xanathar's and Tasha's there are over 100 Class options, but nesting them makes them more manageable.

It's too bad that Themes didn't survive the Playtest, because a triple interlocking nesting may have helped scratch that customization itch a bit for folks.

 

[Minigiant]

I think the Class/Subclass mechanic really takes away the need for expanding the Class list too much: between the PHB, Xanathar's and Tasha's there are over 100 Class options, but nesting them makes them more manageable.

It's too bad that Themes didn't survive the Playtest, because a triple interlocking nesting may have helped scratch that customization itch a bit for folks.

Actually the Class Subclass system doesn't take away that need because ultimatelySubclasses are SUBclasses. Their mechanics can never be strong enouh to take center stage and can't full scale.

That's the inspiration behind this thread. Because Assassin is a subclass, it's features are too weak and too few to be the focus of the PC.

You can't boost poisons, disguises, forgery, and martial Save or Die in a subclass.

The "weak" subclasses of 5e are the ones that lacked the room and power to do their shtick within the confines of subclass: Beastmaster, 4 Elements Monk, Assassin etc

 

[DND_Reborn]

Warlord

---

Skill Proficiencies: History, Persuasion

Tool Proficiencies: One type of gaming set

Languages: One of your choice

Equipment: A dagger that belonged to a fallen comrade, a folded flag emblazoned with the symbol of your company, a set of traveler's clothes, and a belt pouch containing 10 gp

Feature: Strategist

---

You are used to being in charge of military operations and your reputation for reliability has you on a short list when the job is critical. Experience has taught you to rely on your gut. Others recognize this and look to you for direction when a situation gets serious. You are able to identify the most defensible locations for camping or when picking a battlefield. If you are part of a military outfit or a warband, you are able to attract two additional soldier that are loyal to you based on your reputation. You have an excellent memory for maps and geography and can always determine your cardinal directions while traveling.

This is nearly identical to the Noble, just FYI.

You could make this a sub-background of Noble, just like the Knight is...

 

[Parmandur]

Actually the Class Subclass system doesn't take away that need because ultimatelySubclasses are SUBclasses. Their mechanics can never be strong enouh to take center stage and can't full scale.

That's the inspiration behind this thread. Because Assassin is a subclass, it's features are too weak and too few to be the focus of the PC.

You can't boost poisons, disguises, forgery, and martial Save or Die in a subclass.

The "weak" subclasses of 5e are the ones that lacked the room and power to do their shtick within the confines of subclass: Beastmaster, 4 Elements Monk, Assassin etc

I recognize thst is your hypothesis, I just disagree and don't see a major design need.

None of those Subclasses is "weak" per se: the 4 Elements Monk is an effective short rest half-caster, the Beastmaster works fine, etc.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

This is nearly identical to the Noble, just FYI.

You could make this a sub-background of Noble, just like the Knight is...

In fact its a copy paste of the Caravan Specialist background from one of the AL season (which specify that its a Outlander background variant), with the Knight background proficiencies and the Marine background starting equipment

Anyway, that's just to show that background could be an important and FUN part of chargen, instead of only be there to get access to the 2 skills your class does not give you!

 

[DND_Reborn]

Anyway, that's just to show that background could be an important and FUN part of chargen, instead of only be there to get access to the 2 skills your class does not give you!

LOL don't I know it! You should see the stuff our group has for our 5E mod on the Prologue level and Backgrounds, it is about 10 pages.

 

[Mordhau]

The difference between an assassin and a serial killer: paychecks.
The difference between an assassin and a soldier: politics.
The difference between an assassin and a hero: public opinion.
The difference between an assassin and a rogue: ... I honestly have no idea.

Sexiness.

 

[Mordhau]

I don't know that the Assassin needs to be a class. But then I'd say the same about Sorcerer, Warlock, Ranger and Bard.

It would be similar to Rogue, but then most of the spellcasting classes even use a lot of the same spells.

And it would be good to have more non-magical classes.

 

[Mordhau]

The big question for an Assassin class to answer is, does it lean more toward Fighter or more toward Rogue?

By which I primarily mean should they use Sneak Attack like the Rogue or Extra attack like the Fighter and other Warrior classes? I'd probably lean toward the second if only because the Rogue already exists. (And doing one attack a round is boring.) You could always give it sneak attack as well, but you'd want to slow down the progression compared to the Rogue.

Or you could make them choose, normal damage with a range of weapons, or sneak attack with special Assassin weapons like blowdarts, daggers, or garottes.

Because while the fantasy of the sneaky killer who can sneak in anywhere and is a master of poisons is an important part of the fantasy, so is the badass ninja who hacks his way through an army of mooks to finally slay his target in the middle of their fortress.

 

[Minigiant]

The big question for an Assassin class to answer is, does it lean more toward Fighter or more toward Rogue?

By which I primarily mean should they use Sneak Attack like the Rogue or Extra attack like the Fighter and other Warrior classes? I'd probably lean toward the second if only because the Rogue already exists. (And doing one attack a round is boring.) You could always give it sneak attack as well, but you'd want to slow down the progression compared to the Rogue.

Or you could make them choose, normal damage with a range of weapons, or sneak attack with special Assassin weapons like blowdarts, daggers, or garottes.

Because while the fantasy of the sneaky killer who can sneak in anywhere and is a master of poisons is an important part of the fantasy, so is the badass ninja who hacks his way through an army of mooks to finally slay his target in the middle of their fortress.

I'm partial to going Sneak Attack and having the Assassin Dual Wield or Steady Aim with crossbows.

I'm also good with a Daggermaster subclass and let the Assassin attack 3-5 times but with daggers/bootknifes/wristknife/hiddenblades only vs a single target.

Playing an Assasin should be dumping a cop full of dice in damage every turn. The class for sadistic dice goblins. Just so many dice..