D&D 5E Splitting Proficiency Concept

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
Although there are things I like about 5E, a "unified" and "universal" proficiency bonus system isn't one of them. It is super simple, and it works, but it makes things to uniform for my tastes anyway. I realize a lot of people prefer the simpler approach, which is perfectly fine of course, and if that is your view I am happy for you to voice it, but please refrain from shooting down this idea simply because you don't like it. Thanks!

So, I thought of an idea about splitting proficiency into three aspects: casting, combat, and skill. Here is the first draft:

You being with two proficiency points. You spend them in the three aspects, and can put both in the same one if you wish. A Fighter would likely begin with two points in combat, a wizard two in casting, a cleric one in casting and one in combat, a rogue one in combat and one in skill, a bard two in skill, etc. You don't have to split them to follow your class, but many people will to make the character better in their chosen role.

When you level, you gain another proficiency point and allocate it to one of the aspects.

The only restrictions are you cannot put points into the same aspect three times in a row (and MAYBE you cannot have a aspect with more than 12 points; without this the max is 14 due to the other restriction...). This means if you start at level one with 2 points in the same aspect (such as a barbarian with 2 in combat) you must put your point at 2nd level someplace else (such as skill), but at 3rd level can go back to the first aspect (the barbarian returning to combat for 3 points total).

Since you begin with two, by level 20 you will have 21 points total and could do an even 7/7/7 split, or focus and have only two aspects with 12/9, or any combination. A 20th-level paladin might be 12 combat, 5 casting, 4 skill (total 21) or maybe 10 combat, 4 casting, 7 skill, or whatever combination fits as you advance in level.

Now, if I tried to implement this system I would most likely use point-buy for ability scores and limit ASI allocation to 1 per ability (instead of allowing +2 at one time) or simply make it a feat-only game with no pure ASI option.

You still select your proficient skills at level 1. When you have points in the skill aspect, you would get to add those to your checks for your proficient skills. I was thinking for every 3 points you allocate to the skill aspect, you gain proficiency in another skill. Another option would be to break down the skill aspect into skill ranks for placing in each skill individually (such as in earlier d20 games), where you gain 4 ranks per point in skill (2 points at level 1 would mean 8 ranks for your proficient skills). I don't know if I want to break it down that finely.

Likewise, additional weapon and armor proficiencies can be obtained after so many proficiency points are spent in the combat aspect.

Gaining new spell levels would come from the points spent in the casting aspect.

This would allow a character such as a Ranger, who perhaps only wants 1st- and 2nd-level spells, to allocate proficiency points to combat or skill instead so they are better in those areas.

That's it for now, more details will follow if I decide to continue the exercise. Again, this is only the first draft (I made it up as I typed the post LOL). Thanks for reading and please share your thoughts!
 

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As a player, I would have no problem building a character around this method, and I certainly see where some extra customization would be nice. There are a lot of character builds I have done that I almost love, except one small thing (too many spells, not enough skills etc.)

But at what point to you is it more effort than its worth (changing systems instead).

Do you think there might be mid-level balance problems that you can't anticipate?

It is an interesting and fairly straightforward way to build in some granularity.

Wolfram
 

There are some issues I foresee, which is why I just threw out the draft. For example, you could have 6 points in the combat aspect by level 7 (and have just 2 points in skill or casting). If that meant a +6 on attack rolls, such as in normal proficiency, it would be huge.

So, I am not certain precisely how I would make it all work, just that it would allow some customization and granularity that the simpler system lacks.

If you have any thoughts on just what to do with it, I am open to ideas.
 

Hmmm. Looking at the way spells work, the "to-hit" rolls don't go up every level but the amount of spells you know/can cast do. Maybe, your system should only affect what you know (Which skills, weapons, armors, spells) but not how well you do them. So your attack rolls, skill rolls, saving throws stay the same, but you spend your new proficiency points on what you learn from each category.

To be honest, I have no idea if that makes sense or not.
 

If you want to split up proficiency bonuses, you could do it more like Pathfinder 2: tier proficient, expert, master, legendary ... But you would need another tier for 4E.

At 1st level, you get a number of proficiencies based on your class. Then as you level up, you get more. You can learn new skills, or increase your existing ones.

Weapon Attacks, Spells, and Saving Throws could be included here too if you wanted.

They also split Perception out of the skills and treat it almost like a save.
 

Do you find that players who are good at optimization don't have enough spotlight at your table, and don't dominate play enough?

Are you annoyed by casual players who just want to roleplay and maybe fantasize about being big damn heros?

Then add new high impact, pure mechanical, untested customization points to your D&D experience!
 

No, that makes sense, I just don't know how it would work.

The goal is a customizible proficiency system. I am now thinking maybe of limiting the points to 9 per aspect, but awarding points every other level or something. With the total points being 12.

@Xeviat : interesting ideas. I haven't played PF2 but I think I have the book lying around somewhere. I'll have to skim through it.
 

The PDF is super cheap, I recommend it. It has some interesting ideas and really has a 3E meets 4E feel to it. It's very system mastery required just to start getting your head around the rules, though, and I think the presentation is terrible and worse than 4E. But I loved 4E in play so I'm going to give PF2 a shot one of these days.
 

If you want to split up proficiency bonuses, you could do it more like Pathfinder 2: tier proficient, expert, master, legendary ... But you would need another tier for 4E.

At 1st level, you get a number of proficiencies based on your class. Then as you level up, you get more. You can learn new skills, or increase your existing ones.

Weapon Attacks, Spells, and Saving Throws could be included here too if you wanted.

They also split Perception out of the skills and treat it almost like a save.
I see they have:

trained
expert
master
legendary

All of those would tie into the tiers well-enough.

Maybe I could have the point-cost per aspect cumulative and award points equal to the new level? I will have to play with the math some later tonight to see how it works out.
 

I see they have:

trained
expert
master
legendary

All of those would tie into the tiers well-enough.

Maybe I could have the point-cost per aspect cumulative and award points equal to the new level? I will have to play with the math some later tonight to see how it works out.

Just be careful. The math difference between +6 and +5 isn't really huge, so you might run into people just buying a ton of lower proficiencies and not caring as much about higher if they don't come with other stuff.
 

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