Spoilers Poll (Poll about spoilers not a poll containing spoilers)

Which is the ethical way to approach spoilers in threads.


Rune

Once A Fool
I don’t really care. I shouldn’t have to expect a spoiler is relevant long after it was revealed to the public on the off chance that someone will be disappointed by knowing it. That’s the price you pay coming to the subject long after publication - that the surprise is well out there in the public, maybe even part of a broad cultural literacy like Romeo and Juliet dying and Vader being Luke’s father. If your enjoyment is dependent on those things being unknown, maybe you should reset your expectations.
But you know better, now.

You are participating in this thread, so you know that there are people who do not wish for you to bypass their autonomy in deciding whether or not to see a spoiler for something you arbitrarily think they should have experienced before you started talking. Nevermind the fact that they may not have had a choice in that matter, either.

That seems to be the equivalent of saying: “So what? The desires of those people don’t matter.”

But maybe I’ve misread your words. Do the desires of those people matter? If so, using spoiler tags is the way to honor those desires.

It’s the respectful thing to do.
 

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TheSword

Legend
I don’t really care. I shouldn’t have to expect a spoiler is relevant long after it was revealed to the public on the off chance that someone will be disappointed by knowing it. That’s the price you pay coming to the subject long after publication - that the surprise is well out there in the public, maybe even part of a broad cultural literacy like Romeo and Juliet dying and Vader being Luke’s father. If your enjoyment is dependent on those things being unknown, maybe you should reset your expectations.
Whether the spoiler is relevant or not will depend on your audience. That will be a matter of fact. The public isn’t some nebulous body, it’s comprised of individuals who know or don’t.

If your enjoyment depends?

So if someone would enjoy the twist in Shawshank Redemption… which to be honest was one of the most enjoyable twists of any film I’ve seen. If I would enjoy the film more the first time not seeing that, I should reset my expectations because you reserve the right to drop that into conversation without warning?

You can feel and act that way. I’m just saying it’s inherently selfish.
 


TheSword

Legend
As opposed to your desire to not have something spoiled that you might spot in a random conversation? What’s the difference?
Wanting people to use spoiler tags… or give advance warning that they are about to drop a spoiler… or mention spoilers in the thread title isn’t an onerous request.

It’s forum equivalent of asking someone to indicate when driving before they change lanes. It requires negligible effort but makes life a lot better for that person driving behind you. Is asking someone to indicate selfish?

No one is saying you can’t discuss these things. Just give people a heads up so they can make a choice? Do you honestly think that an unreasonable ask?
 
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billd91

Hobbit on Quest (he/him)
The difference is, TheSword’s desire does not rob you of your autonomy.
Yeah, because encountering a spoiler robs people of their autonomy to be willfully ignorant of an event in a book/movie/TV show? There are point where serving the public interest is important - paying taxes for government services, wearing masks/getting immunizations, generally obeying traffic laws, etc. Putting Boromir's death or the fact that Senator Palpatine is a Sith Lord prophylactically behind spoiler tags in case some observer isn't in the know isn't really one of them in your average message board conversation.
 

J.Quondam

CR 1/8
I put "okay if the title says spoilers". But the options aren't actually mutually exclusive, so it's hard to make a completely valid choice.

In reality, though, it doesn't really matter to me if someone else spoilers something for me. If that happens, I don't feel persecuted or "robbed of my autonomy." This isn't a civil rights issue. I mean, it's just a movie or whatever.

That said, I try not to spoiler things for others, except in cases where it seems likely they either already know (eg, cultural touchstones) or don't really care (eg, old fiction). And like obscenity, i'll know that case when I see it.

It's not rocket science. In the end, it just boils down to "Don't be a weenie."
 

Rune

Once A Fool
Yeah, because encountering a spoiler robs people of their autonomy to be willfully ignorant of an event in a book/movie/TV show?
Why would you assume willful ignorance? There are plenty of ways that ignorance would not be willful. Most ways, probably. Not that that is particularly important.

This is a pretty black-and-white issue:
• There are people who will not know the things you spoil (the reasons are irrelevant).
• Some of these people will wish to not know until they experience them for themselves. Note that the above ignorance may also mean that they are not aware of this second point, either.
• You have a choice whether or not to provide some kind of warning that they should not read your next words.
• They do not have the choice to unread something they have read.
• The preceding two points give you power over the reader in this situation.

Certainly, you have the right to ignore all of the above, but you can not at this point do so in ignorance. And deliberately exerting your power over the powerless is an act of bullying.

Since you haven’t answered my previous question, I will ask again:

Do the desires of those people matter?
 
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Ryujin

Legend
Yeah, because encountering a spoiler robs people of their autonomy to be willfully ignorant of an event in a book/movie/TV show? There are point where serving the public interest is important - paying taxes for government services, wearing masks/getting immunizations, generally obeying traffic laws, etc. Putting Boromir's death or the fact that Senator Palpatine is a Sith Lord prophylactically behind spoiler tags in case some observer isn't in the know isn't really one of them in your average message board conversation.
Your use of the term "willfully ignorant" is disingenuous. People are not choosing ignorance, but rather they are choosing to enjoy a work of fiction, as I stated in a previous post, as a blank slate. To naturally encounter the prose as the author intended, instead of having it revealed, piecemeal, by another. Is it really so onerous a request to ask that you only openly post spoilers in threads that are tagged as such, or use the spoiler facility of the board to otherwise hide what you're revealing from those who don't wish to see it? I agree with the others who are saying that it's just a respect thing.
 

billd91

Hobbit on Quest (he/him)
Since you haven’t answered my previous question, I will ask again:

Do the desires of those people matter?
If in a specific thread where spoiler avoidance has been requested, sure. In other threads on other topics, no. Avoiding possible spoilers and the fallout from failing to do so is their responsibility.
 

billd91

Hobbit on Quest (he/him)
Your use of the term "willfully ignorant" is disingenuous. People are not choosing ignorance, but rather they are choosing to enjoy a work of fiction, as I stated in a previous post, as a blank slate. To naturally encounter the prose as the author intended, instead of having it revealed, piecemeal, by another. Is it really so onerous a request to ask that you only openly post spoilers in threads that are tagged as such, or use the spoiler facility of the board to otherwise hide what you're revealing from those who don't wish to see it? I agree with the others who are saying that it's just a respect thing.
Yeah, it is so onerous to police spoilers in random threads where they might come up because that is pretty much everywhere. If you want to discuss a topic spoiler free, the responsibility should be to tag the thread “no spoilers”.
 

Ryujin

Legend
If in a specific thread where spoiler avoidance has been requested, sure. In other threads on other topics, no. Avoiding possible spoilers and the fallout from failing to do so is their responsibility.
It seems to me that the general rule here is the opposite; if a thread isn't specifically tagged as containing spoilers, then it's a no spoilers thread.
 

Rune

Once A Fool
If in a specific thread where spoiler avoidance has been requested, sure. In other threads on other topics, no. Avoiding possible spoilers and the fallout from failing to do so is their responsibility.
That is an impossible bar to meet for someone who doesn’t have any way of knowing you might be about to spoil something, especially in a conversation that was not previously talking about that particular something. Which is to say, without any kind of warning.

Is your solution that simply not read anything you say, just to be safe? How would they know to avoid you before the initial damage is done?

As I pointed out previously, your stance is an assertion of dominance over the situationally powerless. That you have no problem with it, doesn’t change that fact.

But I’m not asking you to recognize why your stance is harmful. I’m just hoping you will respect the autonomy of the people who would be so harmed before you rob them of the chance to ignore you. Instead of blaming them for failing to meet an impossible bar that you have preemptively set for them (impossible because it relies on the reader having knowledge that they can’t already have).
 

TheSword

Legend
Basically if I want to avoid spoilers in @billd91 ’s world, I have to avoid every thread unless that says no spoilers. Otherwise @billd91 is free to drop his trousers and wave his season 3 finale in my face.
 

billd91

Hobbit on Quest (he/him)
That is an impossible bar to meet for someone who doesn’t have any way of knowing you might be about to spoil something, especially in a conversation that was not previously talking about that particular something. Which is to say, without any kind of warning.

Is your solution that simply not read anything you say, just to be safe? How would they know to avoid you before the initial damage is done?

As I pointed out previously, your stance is an assertion of dominance over the situationally powerless. That you have no problem with it, doesn’t change that fact.

But I’m not asking you to recognize why your stance is harmful. I’m just hoping you will respect the autonomy of the people who would be so harmed before you rob them of the chance to ignore you. Instead of blaming them for failing to meet an impossible bar that you have preemptively set for them (impossible because it relies on the reader having knowledge that they can’t already have).
Harm? That seems to me to be a misuse of the term. You may learn about all sorts of things in life you don’t want to know and can’t unlearn ranging from who the killer is in Psycho to Uncle Charlie’s little blue pills being late from the pharmacy, but I seriously doubt they rise to the level of real harm.
 


Rune

Once A Fool
Harm? That seems to me to be a misuse of the term. You may learn about all sorts of things in life you don’t want to know and can’t unlearn ranging from who the killer is in Psycho to Uncle Charlie’s little blue pills being late from the pharmacy, but I seriously doubt they rise to the level of real harm.
The degree to which it is harmful is irrelevant. And not your call, frankly.
 


Ryujin

Legend
Harm? That seems to me to be a misuse of the term. You may learn about all sorts of things in life you don’t want to know and can’t unlearn ranging from who the killer is in Psycho to Uncle Charlie’s little blue pills being late from the pharmacy, but I seriously doubt they rise to the level of real harm.
Yes, I would say that "harm" is a more accurate use of wording than your own previous use of "wilful ignorance."
 

TheSword

Legend
I’ve never understood the argument that other people do worse things, therefore I’m allowed to do this unpleasant and rude thing because it’s less bad.

Less bad, is not good or admirable.
 

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