Spring Attack and scrolls?

[Festivus]

How would it work if you had a scroll of Shocking Grasp, and the Spring Attack feat. Could you activate the scroll, and make a spring attack to deliver the touch attack?

We had a duskblade last night who wanted to activate the scroll, put it on her weapon and deliver a melee attack using spring attack. I ruled that she used a standard action to activate the scroll and therefore would have to wait until the following round to deliver the melee attack (which I think was the right ruling), but I was wondering about melee touch attacks in this instance.

My inclination is that because you are not using a melee weapon to deliver the spring attack it cannot work per the RAW, but the cinematic side of me says that this should be an ok combination to pull off.

Thoughts?

 

[MarkB]

The melee touch attack that occurs as part of casting a Touch-range spell upon an enemy is not a normal attack action - it is part of the act of casting the spell - therefore it is not eligible for use with Spring Attack.

Once you've cast a touch-range spell and are holding the charge (assuming you didn't successfully touch a target during casting), you can then, on subsequent rounds, attempt to deliver the spell using Spring Attack.

Just as a point of interest, you could cast a touch-range spell as part of a Flyby Attack, because Flyby Attack allows you to use any standard action during your movement, unlike Spring Attack, which is limited to the Attack action. However, unless you had Improved Flyby Attack, you would suffer an Attack of Opportunity in the process.

 

[chitzk0i]

First of all, I'm not sure about channeling a spell from a scroll. I guess it would work.

If he decides to just activate the scroll, then he's holding the charge on the touch spell. Next round, I would allow him to use Spring Attack to deliver the spell. However, channeling a spell as part of the spring attack action doesn't work because Spring Attack triggers when you take the attack action, which channeling is not.

 

[Li Shenron]

Activating a scroll is similar to casting a spell, you cannot combine that with Spring Attack even if the spell requires an attack.

As a starting point, the touch attack for a touch spell is part of the casting action. However it is explicitly allowed to separate the two things, for the specific case of touch spells only. You end up with 3 options:

a) cast the spell (or activate the scroll) AND deliver the touch attack immediately, altogether is a standard action
b) cast the spell, move once, then deliver the touch attack, altogether they are a standard+move (this is a special case of separating casting and touching, without using more actions)
c) cast the spell but hold the charge, this is a standard action, and later at any time deliver the touch with another standard action (in another round since normally you only get 1 standard action in a round)

I'm pretty sure that in case c) your touch attack can be used with Spring Attack, because the casting/activating happened in a previous round.

Perhaps you could even argue that it's possible to use it in case b) although maybe by the RAW the touch attack is not strictly an "attack action", but something different.

 

[pawsplay]

Spring Attack is a move action and an attack action, you simply get to perform them in an unusual order and with some benefits. Obviously, you cannot move, perform an attack action, and cast in the same round, unless you used a quickened spell and held the charge.

 

[Dheran]

The melee touch attack that occurs as part of casting a Touch-range spell upon an enemy is not a normal attack action - it is part of the act of casting the spell

I've got to disagree with all of this, for a couple of reasons.

1. There's no "attack action" -- normal or otherwise -- defined in the D&D rules. Attacks may be performed as standard actions, full attack actions, Attacks of Opportunity, or bonus attacks. Full attacks and AoOs don't meet the conditions necessary for Spring Attack (without special class abilities or feats, anyway), but both of the other two attack types do.
2. The rules definitely don't characterize the attack permitted in the same round as casting a touch spell as "part of the act of casting the spell". If that's the case, then movement is also "part of the act of casting the spell".
   

   In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) the target. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target.

I think people will generally agree that the standard action used to cast a touch spell doesn't grant bonus movement. It does, however, grant a bonus attack, restricted to attack forms which can deliver the spell.

As soon as you cast a touch spell your hands are holding the charge; that's why even inadvertently touching a valid target will discharge the spell. Charging your hands in this way also makes them "armed" melee weapons, so attacking with them won't provoke AoOs. Spring Attack lets you split a single move action around a melee attack. The bonus attack granted by casting a touch spell applies. Festivus's Duskblade player was making creative, but quite legitimate, use of the D&D rules.

 

[FireLance]

There's no "attack action" -- normal or otherwise -- defined in the D&D rules. Attacks may be performed as standard actions, full attack actions, Attacks of Opportunity, or bonus attacks. Full attacks and AoOs don't meet the conditions necessary for Spring Attack (without special class abilities or feats, anyway), but both of the other two attack types do.

Since the Spring Attack feat mentions "the attack action" explicitly (as does the Shot on the Run feat), I wonder what it could be referring to.

 

[Hypersmurf]

There's no "attack action" -- normal or otherwise -- defined in the D&D rules.

You'll find it under Standard Actions, Attack, PHB p139. Just like the full round action, Charge, is referred to as 'the Charge action', or the full round action, Full Attack, is referred to as 'the Full Attack action'. 'The Attack action' is the standard action, 'Attack'.

-Hyp.

 

[Dheran]

You'll find it under Standard Actions, Attack, PHB p139. Just like the full round action, Charge, is referred to as 'the Charge action', or the full round action, Full Attack, is referred to as 'the Full Attack action'. 'The Attack action' is the standard action, 'Attack'.

-Hyp.

There's no ambiguity about either of those terms. There obviously is ambiguity about "attack action".
Here's what the text says:

Standard Actions
Attack

Making an attack is a standard action.

You'll note the conspicuous absense of the phrase "attack action" in this primary definition. In the accompanying table, there's also no mention of "attack action"; instead it lists

• Attack (melee)
• Attack (unarmed)
• Attack (ranged)

Throughout the rules, the phrase "attack action" is almost always found in the context of "full attack action". There's no "attack action" in the glossary. In fact, there's nothing at all to make me think that's not an inclusive term for all attack forms, including standard action attack, full-round action attack, attack of opportunity, and bonus attack.

 

[hong]

Awesome! I can make a full attack and move with Spring Attack!