SR defeating spells ?

[Evilhalfling]

Why?

No not why you chose one but why did WotC produce so many versions of the same spell?


Okay and which one would you use/allow.

Spell Vulrnerability - cleric 4, sor/wiz 3 SR = SR - caster lvl. 1min/lvl duration DC = 13/14 + ability mod + caster level.
Lower Spell Reistance cleric 4, sor/wiz4 all else as above
Assay Reistance cleric 4 sor/wiz? cast as immedate action to gain +10 vs 1 target SR 1rnd per lvl no SR no SV

Any other versions?

 

[Henry]

I don't allow ANY of them - it just rubs me the wrong way. There already IS an SR defeating mechanic - it's called BEING A HIGHER LEVEL WIZARD. The problems with the above to me:

Spell Vulnerability & Lower SR = allows "double dipping"; you're getting the lower SR for cast level, and then you're having your check raised AGAIN by your level when you cast.

Assay Resistance = It's such an immediate bonus with no drawbacks that I can't see a Sorcerer or Wizard NOT carrying this on a scroll at all times, if not prepped at all times, especially after 10th level.

I see these spells the same way Sean Reynolds sees weapons that allow you to Crit undead = it's totally changing the very property of a thing, in this case spell resistance itself. You already have a mechanic for defeating SR, and now comes yet another?

You might as well do away with both these spells and SR entirely, because it's main effect is to nullify its existance.

 

[Thanee]

Lower Spell Resistance is pointless (just a weaker version of Spell Vulnerability), otherwise I have no problem with these spells, both are different enough in application.

You still need to prepare them (or use one of your precious Spells Known for them), that's enough limit, and they only work against single opponents, so Spell Penetration still has a place.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Rystil Arden]

I agree with Henry, at least about the ones that actually smack the creature and actually make it lose SR (and in a horrendously unfair twist, the creature doesn't get any SR check against this, and the save DC is basically impossible) again and again... Assay Resistance is not as bad because at least it only gives the one wizard a non-stacking bonus to beat the SR.

But at higher levels, SR is one of the only things that stops the high-level wizard from killing super-power-monster-X immediately. In fact, once you allow Lower Spell Resistance in your game, monsters such as the Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon transform from a rather menacing opponent for its CR 60+ to a pathetic non-challenge for a group of level 27ish wizards...

 

[Victim]

We used a variation of Lower Resistance that took off less SR.

These spells exist in part because WotC has increased the SR of monsters a bunch, so they needed some way for casters to do things. For example, Draconomicon introduces both Lower Resistance and monsters with 40+ SR. These two things are probably not unrelated.

What probably happened is that SR went up a bit in 3.5, but Greater Spell Pen was made core and a bunch of caster level increasing effects were added. However, since not every caster was using them, they had to introduce SR lowering spells and more attack spells that bypass SR.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

It's not come up. But I think the durations are a little high. I would prefer to see something that dropped or lowered SR for the current round only, so that you had to have two casters working in concert -- one to poke the hole in the SR, one to immediately follow up with the desired spell.

 

[the Jester]

You need an 'other' in the poll- that's my answer.

I have a version of Lower Resistance converted from 2e that I've been using much longer than WotC has had any of these.

 

[diaglo]

Glitterdust

 

[Shade]

I rarely disallow any spells from core products, but I actually don't allow any of these. I've found that spell resistance is just too easy to beat on average. Besides, there are a decent number of spells out there that don't allow spell resistance, so the caster can just be creative.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I rarely disallow any spells from core products, but I actually don't allow any of these. I've found that spell resistance is just too easy to beat on average. Besides, there are a decent number of spells out there that don't allow spell resistance, so the caster can just be creative.

Yeah, I'll qualify my earlier post by saying that, like Shade, these are nearly the only spells which I have banned that are in the Complete Series. Even Wraithstrike stays. But not these.