Stacking an improved crit?

[Cameron]

I did a math analysis on the scimitar vs the longsword. For sheer *expected* normal damage, the longsword wins hands down. The scimitar don't even figure, despite its vaunted higher crit range. Allowing threat range stacking brings it back up to about par, but it assumes that you critical as expected and not have a Dice o' Hell day...

 

[Patlin]

Wizards also stated that stacking crits made criticals "less special." That's more of a flavor decision than a balance decision, and therefore hard to challenge with math.

 

[Cameron]

Wizards also stated that stacking crits made criticals "less special." That's more of a flavor decision than a balance decision, and therefore hard to challenge with math.

Hmm... Is that so?

"Hey, Wizards! You want to make things less special? Here's a suggestion for ya! Take the flipping thing out of the game. Yeah, you heard me! Take it out completely. What's with this give with one hand and take with the other nonsense? What are ya? Some guy with an anthill and a magnifying glass?"

 

[Thurbane]

Some creatures, like the Tarrasque and Deadly Dancer, seem to be able to go beyond the normal limits for Improved Critical.

 

[Darklone]

Wizards also stated that stacking crits made criticals "less special." That's more of a flavor decision than a balance decision, and therefore hard to challenge with math.

As someone posted above, with a threat range of 10-20, often nearly every normal hit became a threat. That causes a lot of extra rolling, which is not fun in a game if it becomes standard.

And from 3.0 to 3.5 there were many new magic abilities that triggered on criticals, so this part of the game balance became more important.

 

[Plane Sailing]

As someone posted above, with a threat range of 10-20, often nearly every normal hit became a threat. That causes a lot of extra rolling, which is not fun in a game if it becomes standard.

And from 3.0 to 3.5 there were many new magic abilities that triggered on criticals, so this part of the game balance became more important.

Like what? burst weapons were already in 3.0 (and were and are still vastly overcharged for their utility), what else takes effect on a crit?

I've done analysis myself and seen far more detailed analysis done by others that prove fairly conclusively that allowing stacking of improved crit and keen only just manages to allow scimitars and falchions to keep up in ideal circumstances... Disallowing them both from stacking just doesn't make sense.

Sean Reynolds made an extensive post about it on his site here
http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/rants/keenimprovedcritstacking.html

Cheers

 

[Darklone]

MIC: Bodyfeeder, Cursespewing, Doom Burst (no burst effect weapon), Enervating... didn't check all of them only A-E, but I had the impression there are many special weapon abilities that only trigger on a critical hit. Many of them have already been in the new splatbooks.

I'd like to see a good houserule for critical hits concerning keen and Imp Crit, because I like the mechanism by itself... Hmm, perhaps adding +2d6 sneak attack damage to such hits?

 

[green slime]

IMC, we allow Keen and Imp Crit to stack. Haven't seen any bad side effects yet.

On the other hand, I don't allow any further "PrC" improvement to Crits beyond those two effects. All sorts of other wierd stuff started appearing: adding 1 to crit range, or affecting the multiplier... Not a good tendancy, that.

The biggest gain isn't by the falchion crowd (who with 12-20 x2, only kept up with 15-20 x2 Greatsword, or 18-20 x3 greataxe, but instead the Keen scythe with Imp Crit became ultra deadly with its x4 multplier on damage, combined with a healthy Strength.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Funny thing about Keen... for swords of above +4 total enhancement it is probably most cost effective to NOT get it as a weapon enhancement, but instead go for scabbard of keen edges. Strange to see Keen get that treatment but not other weapon enhancements.

 

[Plane Sailing]

MIC: Bodyfeeder, Cursespewing, Doom Burst (no burst effect weapon), Enervating... didn't check all of them only A-E, but I had the impression there are many special weapon abilities that only trigger on a critical hit.

I've not seem MIC, but since that appeared, what, four(?) years after 3.5 I don't think I'd allow that to count in "And from 3.0 to 3.5 there were many new magic abilities... "

(Incidentally, believe it or not, by strict calculation a flaming burst weapon should do +10d6 damage in order for it to be worth a +2 enhancement! That does seem a little excessive, but I'd like to run it as +5d6 to give it a little more oomph )

Cheers