Stacking an improved crit?

[Darklone]

I've not seem MIC, but since that appeared, what, four(?) years after 3.5 I don't think I'd allow that to count in "And from 3.0 to 3.5 there were many new magic abilities... "

(Incidentally, believe it or not, by strict calculation a flaming burst weapon should do +10d6 damage in order for it to be worth a +2 enhancement! That does seem a little excessive, but I'd like to run it as +5d6 to give it a little more oomph )

Cheers

Fine... yet I think most of these abilities had already been published in the Complete series.

I don't think the whole stacking is broken, abilities like Vorpal or that old wounding (two points con damage without save) are broken. But I do agree with the wizboys that rolling to confirm a crit with every hit that connected starts to be boring.

 

[Patlin]

Hmm... Is that so?

"Hey, Wizards! You want to make things less special? Here's a suggestion for ya! Take the flipping thing out of the game. Yeah, you heard me! Take it out completely. What's with this give with one hand and take with the other nonsense? What are ya? Some guy with an anthill and a magnifying glass?"

I didn't say hard to challenge, just hard to challenge with math. It's a qualitative rather than quantitative judgment.

 

[Quartz]

And since WotC removed the Vorpal problem, the two really should stack in 3.5, but they don't.....

SKR's article

I disagree. SKR's article works if you only multiply the base dice. And restrict yourself to human-sized weapons. But there are lots of additions from combat feats, magic, Power Attack, etc, all of which get multiplied on a critical.

FWIW, here's the critical system I'm mulling:

Normal weapons cannot threaten a critical hit unless the character has the Improved Critical feat, in which case they threaten on a roll of 20.

Masterwork weapons threaten on a roll of 20.

Magic weapons have a threat range equal to their plus. E.g. a +4 weapon threatens on a roll of 17-20.

The Improved Critical feat increases the weapon's threat range by 1. The feat stacks with the Keen quality.

The Keen weapon quality increases the weapon's critical threat range by 1. Keen stacks with the Improved Critical feat.

All confirmed criticals do double damage.

 

[frankthedm]

I say let them stack but change 18-20 crit ranges to 19-20 while increasing the damage die;

Kukri 1d6 19-20
Rapier 1d8 19-20
Scimitar becomes a long sword descibed with a curved blade
Falchion becomes a greatsword descibed with a curved blade

If one feels leaving the x4 crit weapons alone is unfair, adjust those in a similar manner.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I disagree. SKR's article works if you only multiply the base dice. And restrict yourself to human-sized weapons. But there are lots of additions from combat feats, magic, Power Attack, etc, all of which get multiplied on a critical.

FWIW, here's the critical system I'm mulling:

Normal weapons cannot threaten a critical hit unless the character has the Improved Critical feat, in which case they threaten on a roll of 20.

Masterwork weapons threaten on a roll of 20.

Magic weapons have a threat range equal to their plus. E.g. a +4 weapon threatens on a roll of 17-20.

The Improved Critical feat increases the weapon's threat range by 1. The feat stacks with the Keen quality.

The Keen weapon quality increases the weapon's critical threat range by 1. Keen stacks with the Improved Critical feat.

All confirmed criticals do double damage.

So then in your system, buying Keen instead of a regular +1 is just really stupid?

 

[Darklone]

So then in your system, buying Keen instead of a regular +1 is just really stupid?

Keen is for a +5 weapon then.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Keen is for a +5 weapon then.

Well, I did say 'instead of a regular +1'. Once it is +5, you couldn't be taking the regular +1 anyway.

At that point, though, it isn't close to worth the price to get another +1 to critical threat range. You'll already have 16-20 or 15-20 depending on if you have IC. The additional +1 to threat range is costing you at least 22,000 gold, which isn't worth it compared to what else you could buy for that price (that's more than a +4 Strength item costs, for instance). If you absolutely must have the additional threat range boost, a scabbard of keen edge is a better investment.

 

[green slime]

Funny thing about Keen... for swords of above +4 total enhancement it is probably most cost effective to NOT get it as a weapon enhancement, but instead go for scabbard of keen edges. Strange to see Keen get that treatment but not other weapon enhancements.

Yes, I detest that little piece of equipment.

 

[Quartz]

So then in your system, buying Keen instead of a regular +1 is just really stupid?

Good catch. That's why I'm still at the mulling phase. How about if I make Keen do triple damage (instead of double) on a crit then, without increasing the critical range?

 

[glass]

Magic weapons have a threat range equal to their plus. E.g. a +4 weapon threatens on a roll of 17-20.

...

The Keen weapon quality increases the weapon's critical threat range by 1. Keen stacks with the Improved Critical feat.

Why would anyone take keen, if an extra +1 gives the same benefit plus all the other benefits of an enhancement bonus?

EDIT: If they already have a +5 bonus, I suppose, or use the GMW trick a lot.

EDIT2: Wow, I could have sworn that yours was the last post when I replied, but several people have beaten me to the punch by half-a-day. Maybe the page hadn't fully loaded when I clicked Quote


glass.