Staff Combat

[DreadPollock]

I'm a big fan of the staff as a weapon. Too bad it pretty much sucks in D&D. I propose a feat might make it a more useful weapon.

Basically, this feat will combine the benefits of more than one feat, but they only apply when using a staff. The idea is that for anyone to be competant with a staff, you'd have to take a number of feats that apply to all weapons anyway, and you'd end up going with a better weapon anyway. This feat is geared toward wizards who want to be better with their staffs, and anyone who likes the idea of a staff-weilding character who wants to actually be reletively effective in combat.

First off, with this feat, you can use the staff as a double weapon as if you had the two-weapon fighting feat. If you already have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you fight as if you had the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat.

Second, you can use the staff defensively and gain a +3 to AC when fighting defensively (instead of a +2), and a +6 to AC when going full-defensive (instead of +4). In other words, you gain the benefit of having 5+ ranks in Tumble, without needing the actual ranks. If you already have the ranks, you gain a +4 when fighting defensively and +8 when going full-defensive.

Does this sound fair to people?

The Dread Pollock

 

[RangerWickett]

I dunno. A staff is a simple double weapon, does d6 per head. Compare that to an exotic double weapon, the double-sword, which does d8 per head, I think the staff is pretty balanced as is. I could see perhaps a staff style feat, but it really sounds something more warrior-ish. Really, I mean, a wizard wouldn't be able to get Improved TWF until . . . 16th, 18th level?

I dunno, maybe:

Funky Staffjutsu
You kick ass with a long wooden shaft.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +1, Weapon Focus (quarterstaff)
Benefits: You are treated as if you have Two Weapon Fighting and Two Weapon Defense, but only when using a quarterstaff.

 

[Gez]

A weapon style feat, like those in the Compleat Wurrior ?

 

[CombatWombat51]

My houserule:

Staff
When used as a martial weapon, it can be used to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you may drop the staff to avoid being tripped.
If used as a martial weapon, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls, even thought it isn’t a light weapon.


Also, I would say that the staff can be used as a double weapon only when used as a martial weapon. The reason I don't, is I like my houserules to add things, not change things. But for your own houserules, I think tacking on the double weapon bit with what I wrote above would be sweet. Peasants and wizards still have their walking sticks, and monks and rangers can still be badasses with their humble weapons.

 

[silentspace]

Theoretically, if a fighter-type wanted to specialize in a staff it'd be a pretty cool weapon. You can switch from round to round on whether you want to do TWF or Power Attack (its a two handed weapon). You could also enchant both ends separately. If you get Two Weapon Defense, its pretty much always active if you're a staff wielder (since you'll probably be carrying the staff in your hands).

Their base damage/crit range is pretty poor though. And they can be sundered easily.

A cool feat would to allow it to be used as a two-handed weapon with reach, doing 1d8 damage.

 

[Crothian]

There's staff fighting in Quint Fighter that's pretty cool. The abilities can easily be turned into feats if you don't like their sytem of training and xp costs.

 

[DreadPollock]

My houserule:

Staff
When used as a martial weapon, it can be used to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you may drop the staff to avoid being tripped.
If used as a martial weapon, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls, even thought it isn’t a light weapon.


Also, I would say that the staff can be used as a double weapon only when used as a martial weapon. The reason I don't, is I like my houserules to add things, not change things. But for your own houserules, I think tacking on the double weapon bit with what I wrote above would be sweet. Peasants and wizards still have their walking sticks, and monks and rangers can still be badasses with their humble weapons.

When you say "When used as a martial weapon," you mean if some proficient in all martial weapons uses a staff, or if someone spends a feat to use it?

I like that idea. A lot, in fact. I would say that Monks could also use the staff in such a way.

silentspace makes a good point as well. The only problem is that only a fighter could afford to be that badass with a staff, having to spend 3 feats on it, not to mention having a Str of 13 and Dex of 15. Anyone but a fighter would have to spend 6 levels training almost exclusively in combat. And even fighters, by the time they gain all the feats, will most likely realize they're better off using a longsword and shortsword or double-sword (tho admittedly, you'd have to spend an additional feat in that case, but a fighter can afford it). It wouldn't even be practical for a barbarian, paladin, or ranger.

My proposal would allow a character to specialize in the staff, taking advantage of the weapon's inherit advantages without having to spend all the time training in all sorts of weapons the way the various feats do. I think it makes sense for someone to be able to fight with a staff as a double-weapon without knowing how to use other double-weapons.

I also like the trip option. How about allowing people to do nonlethal damage without the -4 penalty?

Dread Pollock

 

[CombatWombat51]

When you say "When used as a martial weapon," you mean if some proficient in all martial weapons uses a staff, or if someone spends a feat to use it?

I like that idea. A lot, in fact. I would say that Monks could also use the staff in such a way.

I mean that to be that anyone who is proficient in all martial weapons can use it in that way. And monks, too, of course A character that couldn't use all martial weapons could spend a feat on Martial Weapon Proficiency, just like characters can get EWP for the bastard sword.

I also like the trip option. How about allowing people to do nonlethal damage without the -4 penalty?

Personally, I think it should be harder to do nonlethal damage with bludgeoning weapons... I mean, you can hit someone with the flat of the blade, but what are you doing with a bludgeoning weapon? I know that's trying to bring realism in where it's not welcome, but I can't get my head around that concept enough to give a bludgeoning weapon an advantage in dealing nonlethal damage.

A cool feat would to allow it to be used as a two-handed weapon with reach, doing 1d8 damage.

Gosh, I kinda like that, too! If I thought it'd see enough use, I'd further my above idea with something like if you use a staff as an exotic weapon, you get a 10' reach with it (and not attack adjacent squares), but you can't use it as a double weapon, or a light weapon. Switching your 'style' is a free action, but can only be used once per round and applies to the rest of the attacks for the round (like FOB, Power Attack, etc). That's just a quick thought, but I'm getting interested in fleshing it out.

I dunno about increasing the damage though. Reach is gnarly enough, let alone adjustable reach.

 

[AeroDm]

Second, you can use the staff defensively and gain a +3 to AC when fighting defensively (instead of a +2), and a +6 to AC when going full-defensive (instead of +4). In other words, you gain the benefit of having 5+ ranks in Tumble, without needing the actual ranks. If you already have the ranks, you gain a +4 when fighting defensively and +8 when going full-defensive.

The Dread Pollock

I considered giving the q-staff this ability just in general. It doesn't seem overpowering at all, imo, and supports the flavor of the q-staff most people see.

 

[Kemrain]

Staves are simple weapons, because anyone can pick up a stick and swing it. When used as a martial weapon, by someone who knows what they're doing, both ends are easily brought into the equation. When used as an Exotic weapon, a trained user can switch from using it as a reach weapon to a double weapon and back again repeatedly in six seconds. For a simple weapon, there's a lot to hot it can be used.

I'm all for the idea of ramping up the ability of the Staff in comparason to the wielder. I've seen some pretty crazy stuff, watching people practice with a staff. Reach weapon, Double weapon, both nearly at once.. I think that 1d6/1d6 20x2 is fine for such a versatile weapon, though I'd look for a way to do 1d8.

If I had to pick a personal favorite weapon, it'd certanly be the staff. You can fight in close, or keep someone 9 feet away from you; whip it around fast enough to crush bone, or simply stun someone with a sharp strike to vital area; can parry strikes with it, trip and disarm with it... A terribly versatile weapon, and deserving of more respect than it recieves.

- Kemrain the Funky Staffjutsu Adept.