Staff creation irregularity?

[Plane Sailing]

The staff creation rules say that a spell can be placed within a staff for half cost if it takes 2 charges to use it.

The list of staffs includes several 3 charge powers (mass suggestion in Enchantment staff, chain lightning in evocation staff, mislead in illusion staff, sunburst in illumination staff...)

My guess is that for 3 charges it would cost 1/3 the normal amount to place the spell in the staff... but are there any rules which explicitly spell that out?

I'm mostly curious where it might be if I've missed it...

 

[Plane Sailing]

Also, is there any reason for placing any spell in a staff at greater than caster level 8 (the minimum necessary) - since you are going to be 12th level in order to craft a staff and the staff will use your caster level anyway for it's spells...

Cheers

 

[Crothian]

Also, is there any reason for placing any spell in a staff at greater than caster level 8 (the minimum necessary) - since you are going to be 12th level in order to craft a staff and the staff will use your caster level anyway for it's spells...

Cheers

The only reason I can think of is if you are creating staff for someone else who is of lower level.

 

[kreynolds]

My guess is that for 3 charges it would cost 1/3 the normal amount to place the spell in the staff... but are there any rules which explicitly spell that out?

I could be wrong, but I thought the 3.0 DMG or FAQ said something about not getting a further discount for consumed charges per use over a certain amount. I can't remember, and I don't have my 3.0 DMG with me.

 

[drnuncheon]

Or if the spell has a higher minimum caster level itself.

 

[The Souljourner]

Good point... you can't put a 5th level spell in there at caster level 8, it has to be the minimum for the spell... As far as I know there's no specific rules for spells that take more than 2 charges, but it's a pretty easy extrapolation.

Here's my problem with staves... you only ever get 50 charges. Dumping 5 spells into a staff costs a *lot* of money, and you get more flexibility, but no more volume. Seems like staffs are too expensive to make for more than one or two spells... and are really only good for spells that are 4th level or lower and have beneficial effects of being cast at 12th caster level or higher.

-The Souljourner

 

[Plane Sailing]

Seems like staffs are too expensive to make for more than one or two spells... and are really only good for spells that are 4th level or lower and have beneficial effects of being cast at 12th caster level or higher.

Don't forget that since they now use the wielders caster level and attribute bonus for DC's they can have sufficiently high spell DC's to pose credible threats

Comparing for the sake of argument a hold person wand - DC 14, and hold person in a staff being wielded by a 16th level wizard with INT boosted to 24 and spell focus (enchantment) - DC 21, much harder to dispel and better at getting past spell resistance. (Dimensional Anchor might be a better example, since if you are using *that* spell then getting past SR and avoiding dispels are much more significant).

I notice that in the SRD description it says to divide expensive material component and special xp costs of spells by the number of charges expended, even though it doesn't say that for base cost. I wonder whether it is an oversight in the base cost?

 

[Li Shenron]

I notice that in the SRD description it says to divide expensive material component and special xp costs of spells by the number of charges expended, even though it doesn't say that for base cost. I wonder whether it is an oversight in the base cost?

Yes I think it is the right way to go: in the table, it says that Material and XP cost for each spell (if the spell has any) is divided by the number of charges needed to activate. So if I want to put a spell into the staff, and the spell has material comp 1gp and 1xp cost, I have to pay 300gp (50x1gp+50x1x5gp) in case I want to spend 1 charge; if I accept to spend 2 charges, it costs 150gp, 3 charges 100gp, and so on...

It should be the same for the BASE PRICE:

...cost for creating the staff-375 gp x the level of the highest-level spell x the level of the caster, plus 75% of the value of the next most costly ability (281.25 gp x the level of the spell x the level of the caster), plus one-half of the value of any other abilities (187.5 gp x the level of the spell x the level of the caster)...

...

If desired, a spell can be placed into the staff at only half the normal cost, but then activating that particular spell costs 2 charges from the staff. The caster level of all spells in a staff must be the same, and no staff can have a caster level of less than 8th, even if all the spells in the staff are low-level spells.

For the base price, it doesn't say with more than 2 charges, but since for 2 charges it is the same for both base and component price, and since component price gets further discount if you use 3+ charges, I think it is fair to assume you can get the same discount on the base price.

Getting the discount for the component price only doesn't help much. In any case, I don't think it's very useful to make the spell cost too many charges.

 

[Staffan]

Here's my problem with staves... you only ever get 50 charges. Dumping 5 spells into a staff costs a *lot* of money, and you get more flexibility, but no more volume. Seems like staffs are too expensive to make for more than one or two spells... and are really only good for spells that are 4th level or lower and have beneficial effects of being cast at 12th caster level or higher.

That's why you get a discount on the 2nd spell you put in a staff, and a greater discount on the 3rd and subsequent one.