Stalker0's Alternate Core Skill Challenge System: FINAL VERSION 1.8!

[Harr]

Sorry for double-post, but just finished reading 1.6 and... you seriously took out Critical Success for 1.6? Like, seriously? That's the first change for me right there

Looks really good otherwise! Contrary to CS I'm actually glad Daredevil Stunt is gone, that thing was ic-ky.

 

[Lokathor]

A system so good I registered just to ask about it.

I did a quick survey of the level 1 characters I had around from DMing my own game and from a game I'm playing in (8 characters total), and the average trained skill bonus was only +7.8. This is mostly because my players don't get as many 18s with point buy, they go for more even arrays.

If I'm reading this right, that means I should subtract 1 from all the DCs and it'll all work out. Is this correct?

 

[77IM]

1) So Stalker, why did you go to 2 levels instead 3? Personally I liked the smaller table.
Giving DCs every 2 levels gave me a bit more precision than the 3 level model. And when you’re working with this kind of math, more precision equals more good. I figured Dms wouldn’t mind a slightly larger table if it led to a more balanced system.
2) Regarding the footnote, why do I need to add +1 DC at those levels?
Simplicity has its price. With those particular levels, I noticed a spike in the party’s win rate. If the table had shown every level, I would have modified the DCs. But I figured that would make the table too large, so I added the footnote. Adding a +1 to the DC at those levels will fix everything very nicely.

As a totally minor bit of feedback, I'd really like it better if this table had 1 row per level (each level having its own row). I'm perfectly able to read a table 30 rows deep, and it gives me much better confidence that the numbers are accurately balanced for the party's level.

-- 77IM

 

[Stalker0]

A system so good I registered just to ask about it.

I did a quick survey of the level 1 characters I had around from DMing my own game and from a game I'm playing in (8 characters total), and the average trained skill bonus was only +7.8. This is mostly because my players don't get as many 18s with point buy, they go for more even arrays.

If I'm reading this right, that means I should subtract 1 from all the DCs and it'll all work out. Is this correct?

Yep, a -1 to DC should get you straightened out. I would love some feedback on how 8 character parties handle with my system. The baseline is 5, and I made allowances for larger and smaller parties but that math gets fuzzier, so feel free to let me know how it goes!


Many people are asking about XP. From a strict number of roll perspective, my complexities tend to equal WOTC's.

So 1 = 1, 2=2, 3=3, etc. However, my system allows party members to spend more resources. I would go with Complexity 1 = WOTC Complexity 1. Complexity 2 = WOTC Complexity 3. Complexity 3 = WOTC Complexity 4.


Also, a question was asked about the 80% win rate. If the party is at 62%, these are the win rates:
Complexitiy
1: 84%
2: 80%
3: 78%

+1 DC
1: 79%
2: 73%
3: 69%

-1 DC
1: 89%
2: 87%
3: 85%

Subject to change slightly for guys with higher or lower bonuses, but in general they shouldn't move much.

These numbers do not factor in any heroic surges, so a party that utilizes surges can bump that number up.


On to the question of Skill Challenges in combat, I think they would absolutely work. As mentioned before, a level 4, complexity 1 challenge should represent 1 level 4 monster....assuming that WOTC is correct about a complexity 1 challenge being equal to a single monster.

 

[Stalker0]

Sorry for double-post, but just finished reading 1.6 and... you seriously took out Critical Success for 1.6? Like, seriously? That's the first change for me right there

Looks really good otherwise! Contrary to CS I'm actually glad Daredevil Stunt is gone, that thing was ic-ky.

If you want to throw it back in here's teh original rule:

Critical Success: On a natural 20 you score a critical success. You can refresh 1 other players Bold Recovery or Heroic Surge

 

[Stalker0]

As a totally minor bit of feedback, I'd really like it better if this table had 1 row per level (each level having its own row). I'm perfectly able to read a table 30 rows deep, and it gives me much better confidence that the numbers are accurately balanced for the party's level.

-- 77IM

I should be able to do that


Also, I would really like to hear back from people who thought Version 1.5 was too complex. I feel like Version 1.6 is a lot cleaner and easier to read, getting down to the core mechanics of what makes the system good. Is there anything left that's confusing or poorly presented?

 

[gonesailing]

Here are a couple of initial versions of documentation for this system. Feedback is encouraged.

I used the format in the DMG. Also my Open Office-Fu is weak, but I use Linux at home so if the files are difficult to open, I will work at them...at work.

 

[Lokathor]

I would love some feedback on how 8 character parties handle with my system. The baseline is 5, and I made allowances for larger and smaller parties but that math gets fuzzier, so feel free to let me know how it goes!

Actually, there were two groups worth of PCs there (the group I run and the group I play in). The party is usually 3 to 4 players big depending on who shows up, and the group I run already hit one TPK so far >_<. It's alright though, all but one of us loves making the characters and looking at the optimization aspects about as much as we love playing, so it works out.

I will report back with success or failure after a few challenges though. Games are on weekends for my groups.

 

[The_Universe]

Very interesting system!

 

[Stalker0]

Alright guys, I've updated the system to Version 1.7.

The reason is I decided to make a 30th level table for those who asked, and as I was making it I decided the system would be smoother if I could add a +1 DC here or there.

Finally, I realized that the system is just plain smoother if I show all 30th levels and have the freedom to tweak each level individually. I think the added smoothness is worth a bit more table space.

Also a couple of questions someone in person asked me about teh system.

1) So, if the system is smoother and can handle changes in DC without breaking, does that mean I can now run higher level difficulty skill challenges without a problem?

I am happy to say...YES YOU CAN!! Running a skill challenge one or two levels higher than your party should give you a reasonable amount of increase in difficulty, without nose diving into complete failure. But if they do have some trouble, heroic surge and Bold Recovery are there to help, and should aid in making those difficult challenges memorable ones.

2) If a party used a lot of heroic surges, wouldn't they have a very high chance of success?

If every player uses his heroic surge for a skill challenge, that will bump up the standard win rate from 80% to about 88-90%. Keep in mind that's an average, in general heroic surges are a way for a losing party to come back, that's why you get double the bonus is used at the time of trials.