D&D 5E Stalker0's Xanathar Spell Ratings

[abirdcall]

Seems like a pretty good list. I've picked 3 to disagree with.

Catapult - 3
Comparing to magic missile. Unless your dex DC has an 75% or higher chance, you do less damage. If you position it right, you can get a little bit more range than Magic Missile but its situational and requires an object. This spell really doesn't bring anything to the table.

2 things about this spell:

If the creature makes its Dex save the creature behind it also needs to make a Dex save and so on.

Fun things can be thrown like vials of acid and the like.

Cause Fear - 3
Compared to spells like sleep, its not a great crippler at low levels. There are better spells to do effects, or just apply damage.

Sleep is useful at the end of a battle. Cause Fear is useful at the start. If sleep is used against a horde of creatures they can wake themselves up. If it is used against big creatures it won't work until they've been hurt. I think there are uses for Cause Fear before level 5. Probably best on a Warlock.

Create Bonfire - 3
Already good damaging cantrips, this one really doesn't add anything to the table.

Create Bonfire is perhaps the best of the 1d8 plus rider cantrips, as long as the caster doesn't want to concentrate on another spell. It is perfect for those minor battles where the caster doesn't want to use good spells.

Cast Create Bonfire, control a square, and then cast other damaging cantrips on future rounds. If an enemy engages in melee with the caster then this cantrip can entice them to move off. If there are no good spaces for them to walk around then it will likely do free damage each round.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

...

Infernal Calling - 3
As cool as this spell looks, that's a lot of hoops to go through for a summon. Take away the concentration and I'm board, but its not all that great.

Summon Greater Demon - 2
I like this spell. Its a summon that doesn't consume your actions. Even if you lose control, if you place it in the middle of a brawl its unlikely to get at you. The material component is a neat touch (and I suspect many players will never even recognize that its not just a normal material component). Finally, the summon can be quite potent at the mid levels when magical attacks aren't always assumed...the shadow demon for example has some very good resistances.

Summon Lesser Demons - 2
Same reasons I like Greater Demon summoning.

...

These spells take on an entirely different aspect when combined with Planar Binding & Magic Circle. A caster can summon and bind very powerful devils and demons to serve them for up to a year for 1000gp each. No limit to how many can be bound this way other than $$$, so for those of you complaining about no use for cash in 5e, your demon army awaits!

 

[John Brebeuf]

Chaos Bolt - 2
Similar in stats to Catapult, but has a crit chance and a 12.5% chance to hit another player.

Actually, there's a 0% chance unless the spell caster WANTS to hit another player.

If you roll the same number on both d8s, the chaotic energy leaps from the target to a different creature of your choice within 30 feet of it.

 

[CapnZapp]

These spells take on an entirely different aspect when combined with Planar Binding & Magic Circle. A caster can summon and bind very powerful devils and demons to serve them for up to a year for 1000gp each. No limit to how many can be bound this way other than $$$, so for those of you complaining about no use for cash in 5e, your demon army awaits!

If your DM lets you get away with this.

(Unless they have errataed the spells in question, the summon ends the round before it gets bound and therefore your demon army fizzles. No I know they've stated the RAI on this. But RAI is still not RAW. That's why I'm saying "if your DM lets you get away with this".)

 

[CapnZapp]

Actually, there's a 0% chance unless the spell caster WANTS to hit another player.

Stalker, what I think Brebeuf is aiming for here is the phrasing "of your choice". The devs clarified that this phrasing never forces you to hit someone you don't want to, I believe for the Green-flame blade cantrip(?)

 

[Caliburn101]

Sorry but this is one of the deadest horses around you're starting to beat upon

The decision they made (past tense) is still as impactful on everyone's game as it was the moment the HB came out. Expressing my opinion about the poor decision making and illogic involved is in no way a waste of my time, or the OPs.

Perhaps you should direct your comment at the OP as they have marked a lot of spells red because of the 'fireball standard' which according to you shouldn't be used... because... we already know about it?

Is that a valid criticism?

I think not.

Still a problem... so still a valid forum topic.

In fact here's a challenge - re-baseline all the spells in the game based on fireball and give us a table to look the new values up - that at least would be something we could all get behind.

 

[Stalker0]

Stalker, what I think Brebeuf is aiming for here is the phrasing "of your choice". The devs clarified that this phrasing never forces you to hit someone you don't want to, I believe for the Green-flame blade cantrip(?)

This was just a writing goof on my part. I never thought the spell hit your own people, and I rated it with thst in mind

 

[CapnZapp]

The decision they made (past tense) is still as impactful on everyone's game as it was the moment the HB came out. Expressing my opinion about the poor decision making and illogic involved is in no way a waste of my time, or the OPs.

Perhaps you should direct your comment at the OP as they have marked a lot of spells red because of the 'fireball standard' which according to you shouldn't be used... because... we already know about it?

Is that a valid criticism?

I think not.

Still a problem... so still a valid forum topic.

In fact here's a challenge - re-baseline all the spells in the game based on fireball and give us a table to look the new values up - that at least would be something we could all get behind.

Not sure what you mean, but that's okay because the fireball standard exists and I've learnt to live with it.

(That Stalker is rating spells red because they're level 3 spells that just deal damage, and less effectively so than fireball? That's exactly what I'm arguing he should do.)

I really don't think I have anything else to say on this topic.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

If your DM lets you get away with this.

(Unless they have errataed the spells in question, the summon ends the round before it gets bound and therefore your demon army fizzles. No I know they've stated the RAI on this. But RAI is still not RAW. That's why I'm saying "if your DM lets you get away with this".)

I think the RAW and RAI line up pretty well here.

(Typically the creature is first summoned into the center of an inverted magic circle in order to keep it trapped while this spell is cast). At the completion of the casting, the target must make a Charisma saving throw. On a failed save, it is bound to serve you for the duration. If the creature was summoned or created by another spell, that spell's duration is extended to match the duration of this spell.

First you have the intent that the bound creature can be summoned by another spell. Then you have the duration of the summoning spell becomes the duration of the this spell. Those two together makes it very likely that Planar Binding is indeed a conduit for using summoning spells to bring in targets.

And yeah, it has the potential to get very broken. As a DM in my home game I'd probably just allow you to have one Planar Bound creature at a time even though that's not in the text of the rule.

 

[Iry]

If your DM lets you get away with this.

(Unless they have errataed the spells in question, the summon ends the round before it gets bound and therefore your demon army fizzles. No I know they've stated the RAI on this. But RAI is still not RAW. That's why I'm saying "if your DM lets you get away with this".)

It's safe to say the overwhelming majority of DM's would allow this spell combination, and for the outliers there is always the Divine Soul who can extend their spells. The combo was even allowed in our local AL games.

Summon Greater/Lesser Demon have an interesting quirk as well. They stick around for 1d6 rounds after you end your concentration on them, which you can do right before you finish casting Planar Binding. Infernal Calling doesn't work as well, but since you don't have to issue commands you can wait until the last couple of rounds, then issue your commands and hoping to fail to get an extra 3d6 minutes. That loophole stinks like stilton, but the Greater/Lesser option is pretty solid.

Now, allowing a player to build a whole army of demons is a different issue entirely.