Standard DM behavior?

[FireLance]

Are you suggesting, an adventurer walks into the shop, flicks through a catalog, chooses the desired item and then the owner uses the enchant item ritual to whip up the desired item in front of his eyes?

and hence its so run of the mill a PC shouldn't bother even mentioning he's looking for such an item, because its such a given it can be easily and quickly attained? That must be a shop owner of some note, because you can only enchant items of your level or lower... what happens when you start wanting items around 10th level, or 20th... or higher... just not in the shops?

I personally prefer that the acquisition of magic items be a little more rare and special than that. YMMV.

The way I see it, the player "buying" whatever item he wants is simply a matter of gameplay convenience. As a matter of playstyle preference, my regular gaming group simply glosses over how specific magic items are sought for and acquired. If the player wants, he can certainly narrate how he was fortunate enough to find one available for sale, or he can describe how he managed to locate one after tapping on an extensive network of contacts. It doesn't have to be narrated as walking into a magic item shop and looking through a catalogue if the player doesn't want to do so. Similarly, when a player picks a feat for his character, he can gloss over how he acquires it if he wants, or he can decribe how he managed to hunt down an Adept of the Order of the Emerald Serpent and got him to impart some esoteric technique to him.

 

[FireLance]

I totally agree. Before 3e, I never saw pcs expect that they could buy magic items. Since then, not only do they expect to be able to, many feel entitled to do so.

I blame the Gord the Rogue books. I recall reading one scene where he bought a magic dagger from a shop. Whoever wrote them must have no understanding of how D&D should be played.

 

[Ariosto]

A magic dagger in a shop in the world of Greyhawk would be quite attractive, especially as they are six times as rare as magic swords. It's a LONG (if fast) slide down the slippery slope from collectors' items to commodities -- and from magic items serving chiefly as treasures acquired in the course of adventures in actual play to their serving chiefly as more "build points", like "feats" and so on, to pick out of books.

 

[FireLance]

A magic dagger in a shop in the world of Greyhawk would be quite attractive, especially as they are six times as rare as magic swords. It's a LONG (if fast) slide down the slippery slope from collectors' items to commodities -- and from magic items serving chiefly as treasures acquired in the course of adventures in actual play to their serving chiefly as more "build points", like "feats" and so on, to pick out of books.

Jokes aside, I do agree that there have been quite significant and recent shifts with respect to what is considered the province of player choice and what is considered the province of the DM or random chance.

In 1e AD&D, random chance had an impact on even the player's choice of race, class and starting equipment because the player might generate a character with ability scores that did not qualify him for the race or class he wanted to play, or starting gold that was insufficient to purchase all the equipment he wanted. In my view, the "standardization" and easy customization of material rewards is just another step in the same direction as point buy for ability scores, freedom of choice with respect to character class and race, fixed hit point gain, and fixed starting gold.

There are positive and negative aspects of this trend - greater assurance to the player that he can play the character that he wants vs. certain game elements no longer feeling as "special" because they are more easily gained by the player, for example. Individual groups will just have to work out which point on the continuum they are most comfortable with.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Are you suggesting, an adventurer walks into the shop, flicks through a catalog, chooses the desired item and then the owner uses the enchant item ritual to whip up the desired item in front of his eyes?

No. I'm suggesting that an adventurer visits a middleman that has contacts that can craft magic items. The character states what he is looking for. ("I would like an item that aids me in reading foreign languages.") They strike a deal and the character receives his item when it is ready.

and hence its so run of the mill a PC shouldn't bother even mentioning he's looking for such an item, because its such a given it can be easily and quickly attained?

That would be up to an individual DM's tastes. I was only commenting on how a purveyor of magic items could have any item available through the residuum trade.

That must be a shop owner of some note, because you can only enchant items of your level or lower... what happens when you start wanting items around 10th level, or 20th... or higher... just not in the shops?

Again, up to the individual DM's tastes, but 4th Edition NPCs follow their own rules. The general rule on crafting magic items is what you state. An NPC focused on crafting could have a special ability to craft items above his level.

I personally prefer that the acquisition of magic items be a little more rare and special than that. YMMV.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Just as there is nothing wrong with a Magic Walmart in your campaign if that is the feel you are looking for in your game. My personal approach as DM is completely different than either of these approaches (or at least the justification behind it is).

You lost me ont the 10-40% mark up bit. The component cost is the price of the item. So if the shop keeper makes the item, it cost him as much as he's selling it for in Residuum. Unless you're imposing a further 10-40% penalty on top of the listed price, which I'm fairly sure is not RAW. Or do shopkeeper have access to a special shopkeeper guild version of the ritual that makes the creation process cheaper, and hence economically viable.

It is RAW. I don't have my books to give a page reference, but there is a 10-40% markup imposed on characters purchasing magic items.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

The whole I-can-buy-any-item-in-the-books is (as far as I am concerned) an abomination introduced with the previous edition. In my games, no matter the edition, this is never allowed.

And this is what causes edition wars. Calling another person's style an "abomination" is really not fair. I started with 1st Edition and the rule that magic items could never be purchased, only found. Over the years my style has changed. Sometimes it depends on the campaign world. Now I've embraced the player narration style and I allow my players alot of freedom, including choice of magic items and how their acquisition is narrated. Heck, the magic items don't even have to be actual items in my campaign anymore, although I do still follow the magic item rules (i.e. the slot rules) to keep things fair and balanced. I've enjoyed playing all of these styles over the years and could never imagine myself calling the restrictiveness of 1E an abomination.

 

[S'mon]

I blame the Gord the Rogue books. I recall reading one scene where he bought a magic dagger from a shop. Whoever wrote them must have no understanding of how D&D should be played.

And it's a munchkin weapon too - IGNORES ARMOUR! MAXIMUM DAMAGE! COSTS 25 GOLD PIECES!

 

[rjdafoe]

I had purchased this at the Adventurers Vault, with gold acquired from the campaign. I was able to read a parchment he had introduced into our story. He was not happy.

We have changed DMs per adventure, but never on an encounter level. That would seem to me to make alot of inconsistancies within 1 adventure.

My question to you is, did you just show up with that magic item and never consult the DMs about it? That would be a no-no in my games. Items have to be purchased during the game, not at home outside of the game.

 

[SolitonMan]

This is an interesting thread. To the OP, I believe that there is a communication problem within your group in terms of the rules in use. When I DM I'm pretty freewheeling with allowing almost any source for feats, spells, items, etc. However, I have veto power over any of these things, and I expect the players to discuss with me anything they are taking for their characters. I don't do this to be controlling - I think my veto rate is <1% - but I do want to be aware of how the characters are evolving with respect to their abilities and powers.

It sounds as though there was simply a lack of communication over when and how items should be acquired in your game. Doesn't sound like an issue that would require more than a considerate discussion amongst your group. Good luck!

 

[Janx]

several problems:

1) many DMs do not allow shopping outside of the game. Technically, just because you have the money and the book, doesn't mean the item is available where your PC is located at. Only the GM can make that determination. Basically, the mistake the OP may have made was assuming he could buy anything, without asking the DM "Can I buy this item from XYZ book?"

2) your DMs may not be coordinating enough. Personally, I'd never share a campaign, I'd have the other DM run a different set of PCs and not in my region if we shared the same game world. Since they are swapping, they need to have established guidelines on loot, difficulty, and any house-rules and style issues. That's their responsibility to make sure the game doesn't see-saw between the DM's as what's legal keeps flip-flopping.

3) a DM who out-right banned a sourcebook because you bought something simple that wasn't game-breaking is knee-jerking. The proper response should have been, "next time you want to buy something, clear it with me first." Others have pointed out that the item solved a problem that had several other simple alternatives. The DM was likely having a control issue, and that's a warning sign.