Standing up from prone

[Cabral]

I have to agree with KarinsDad, insofar as "Stand from prone as a free action" is concerned. Take Quicken Spell for example. It changes casting a spell to a swift action (a free action with the limitation that you can only perform 1 swift action per round) and says it no longer provokes an attack of opportunity. If changing the action type was sufficient to prevent attacks of opportunity, this last bit would not be needed.

All that goes out the window if different wording is used ... WotC tends to be very careful about their wording for a reason.

Edit: fixed url

 

[KarinsDad]

What rules do we need to know? It's a free action, and it's not stated whether or not it provokes an AoO.

That's one more piece of information than we have about your 'kneel from prone' action

You didn't answer the question.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

I was under the impression that you could crawl while prone, moving 5' as a full-action. Unfortunately I don't have my books handy, can anyone confirm this?

Thanks!

 

[IanB]

The guaranteed way to stand up without provoking an AOO is to take the thief-acrobat prestige class (I think it was that one.) The "kip up" class feature lets them stand from prone as a free action with no AOO, I believe.

As an aside, the tumble DC for standing up for free is, imo, much too high at DC 35. I know a couple guys who can kip up, and I doubt they have that many ranks in anything.

Better house rule options, imo, would be setting it to DC 20 (or DC 10 or 15 plus opponent's to-hit bonus, if you want to also let it avoid AOOs) or adding a feat to do it, with a prerequisite of 10 ranks in tumble.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Crawling is a move action.

Crawling: You can crawl 5 feet as a move action. Crawling incurs attacks of opportunity from any attackers who threaten you at any point of your crawl.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Take Quicken Spell for example. It changes casting a spell toa swift action (a free action with the limitation that you can only perform 1 swift action per round) and says it no longer provokes an attack of opportunity. If changing the action type was sufficient to prevent attacks of opportunity, this last bit would not be needed.

Take Rapid Reload, for example. It changes loading a light crossbow to a free action, and says it still provokes an attack of opportunity. If changing the action type were not sufficient to prevent attacks of opportunity, this last bit would not be needed.

Unfortunately, there are examples of cases where they've said "still provokes" and "no longer provokes", so it can't really be used as evidence either way

Now, I agree that if something changes the action for Stand from Prone from a move action to a free action, and says nothing further, it should still provoke. That's not what Prone Attack does, though.

You didn't answer the question.

It's almost the opposite of the Quickdraw/Wands question, really.

The Draw a Weapon action allows you to draw a weapon or weaponlike object as a move action.

A wand is a weaponlike object for this purpose.

The Quickdraw feat allows you to draw a weapon as a free action.

Does the Quickdraw feat allow you to draw a weaponlike object as a free action?

It depends whether when the feat says "draw a weapon", it means "Take the Draw a Weapon action", or just "draw a weapon". The text of the Draw a Weapon action makes it clear that a wand is not a weapon; it is a weaponlike object, and the action allows you to either draw a weapon, or to draw a weaponlike object. The Draw a Weapon action provides for two possibilities; the Quickdraw feat provides for only one (unless we assume several words ('take the' and 'action') have been omitted for brevity).

If someone can Quickdraw a sword, but cannot Quickdraw a wand, then the action they use to draw the sword cannot be the Draw a Weapon action (modified to a free action), because the Draw a Weapon action would allow them to draw a wand.

Our problem here comes at it from the opposite direction. The Stand From Prone action is a move action that allows one to regain one's feet. The Prone Attack feat allows one to regain one's feet as a free action. Does this necessitate taking the Stand From Prone action? Well, if one can draw a weapon without using the Draw a Weapon action (by means of a feat), can one not regain one's feet without taking the Stand From Prone action (by means of a feat)?

-Hyp.

 

[Chairman7w]

(Shrug) I don't know, I've always thought that flip-up, kip-up dealie bob was WAY overrated. It looks cool, but it's real-life practicality seems very low IMHO.

By the time it takes to roll back onto your shoulders and rock/push yourself forward and up, you'd be kicked in the ribs about 40 times. Thus ending your "kip up" experience.

As an aside, the tumble DC for standing up for free is, imo, much too high at DC 35. I know a couple guys who can kip up, and I doubt they have that many ranks in anything.

 

[KarinsDad]

Our problem here comes at it from the opposite direction. The Stand From Prone action is a move action that allows one to regain one's feet. The Prone Attack feat allows one to regain one's feet as a free action. Does this necessitate taking the Stand From Prone action? Well, if one can draw a weapon without using the Draw a Weapon action (by means of a feat), can one not regain one's feet without taking the Stand From Prone action (by means of a feat)?

You still have not answered the question.

The question is:

Is your position: Since "regain your feet" is not the exact same phrase as "stand", the game mechanic is different?

There are boatloads of examples in the game where a portion of a game mechanic is changed by a feat. Using other feats does not really answer the question for this one. The question is, is this a case where we are talking about a totally different game mechanic and if so, how do we know that?

 

[Hypersmurf]

There are boatloads of examples in the game where a portion of a game mechanic is changed by a feat. Using other feats does not really answer the question for this one. The question is, is this a case where we are talking about a totally different game mechanic and if so, how do we know that?

If they wanted us to know to use the Stand Up From Prone mechanics, they'd say 'stand up from prone'. They didn't.

If they really wanted to make it clear, they'd say 'stand up from prone as a free action (provoking an attack of opportunity as normal)', like they did with the Tumble check in Complete Adventurer.

-Hyp.

 

[KarinsDad]

If they wanted us to know to use the Stand Up From Prone mechanics, they'd say 'stand up from prone'. They didn't.

If they really wanted to make it clear, they'd say 'stand up from prone as a free action (provoking an attack of opportunity as normal)', like they did with the Tumble check in Complete Adventurer.

So, is it your contention that since they did not use the word "stand", that they were being explicit that this is a totally different game mechanic?