Star Wars prequel questions

[Morrus]

My interpretation after having watched the prequels recently was not that "they're not as bad as I remember." Instead, I think many contemporary Hollywood blockbusters have sunk to their level.

There may be some of that in it. Maybe my standards have dropped!

 

[Willie the Duck]

The primary purpose of the other thread was to keep people from interjecting their Star Wars gripes into other-subject threads. That said, I don't understand Morris' problem either with that threads existence being pointed out, nor using it.

That said, since this thread exists:
The SW prequels are very much like the 'Free Han' component of Return of the Jedi -- much of it is overly convoluted, could be accomplished in-universe by someone doing something much more practical than whatever happened in shot, and much of the activity exists exclusively so we could see interesting visuals. That said, there are some very nice visuals (some of which now look dated, but that is to be expected with three decade old films).

They aren't great, but aren't as bad as I remember.

My takeaway on rewatch is that most of the complaints I had about the sequels (nonsense plot, wild upgrade in competence from the original trilogy, etc.), I can see in this. And most of the complaints I have for these, I can see in the original trilogy (nonsense set pieces, characters being handed the idiot ball, etc.).
I mean, the original had OSHA-free bottomless pits and trash compactors (why? They jettison their trash into space) on the prison level and Leia letting the guys take the ship she knows is being tracked back to the rebel hideout and Boba Fett getting taken out like a putz. Likewise, for all the grief the sequels get for Rey being instant badass jedi, this one shows 880 y.o. Yoda and 38 year old Obi Wan kicking ass and taking names while 20 years of aging turn them both into limping old men.
Everything we complain about in the sequels is here, but at the same time, everything we complain about in the prequels are also in the holy trinity. We just accept them because they are, overall, better made, better written/edited (all hail Marcia Lucas), and the practical effects are less prone to showing their aging (although let's be clear, there are parts of the original 3 that we also just overlook -- the original death star explosion, planets in general, etc.).

1. Queen Padme Amidala has Kiera Knightly pretend to be her, while she disguises herself as a handmaiden called.... Padme? She's as bad at subterfuge as Bond, James Bond!

Or Obi Wan Kenobi hiding out where his nemesis grew up, hiding said nemesis's son with his brother, wearing jedi robes as his disguise, and calling himself 'Old Ben Kenobi.' Question: did we know that Queen Amidala's first name was Padme at that point?

3. I still to this day don't really understand Palpatine's plan. If you own both a giant clone army and a giant robot army, instead of making them fight each other in a giant fake war, why not just use them both to just say "hey, I'm in charge now". Seems like a lot of effort to get to the same goal.

I think the idea is that it means that people (the civilian, law enforcement, and military populace) buy in to the clones as legitimate parts of the governing military, stopping any resistance to them being in power until it is too late. It works for the Jedi. It's just that we aren't really shown any sign that the Jedi or any other force at play could really take on the clones and robots together (when it takes the clones and Jedi to take on the robots).

4. Why do the Gungans and the droids fight on the Windows XP desktop background?

FWIW, that (the XP background) is a real place in Sonoma County, California, not far from ILM. Lucas probably had the same skyline looking out over his breakfast table.

6. Why can't jedi actually use swords? They just wave them round ineffectually most of the time. I mean, I know it's all fake laser sword nonsense, but at least make it look strong! The main characters are generally OK, Mace Windu isn't great, and all the jedi in that arena just look awful like they've just been handed a plastic sword and told "try to look cool". Which they fail to do.

Why they do not look cool is a real question for me as well. Why they can't actually use swords is more answerable. Realism in cinematic combat really surged as a priority kinda right after these and the LotR movies -- perhaps as a response to nitpicking of them by the perpetually online pedantry (hello fellow nerds). At the time, the stage fighting from Highlander or Princess Bride was the go-to movie combat of the time. The director's response to 'your combat isn't realistic' would have been 'of course not, it's stage fighting.' Mind you, it could have been good stage fighting...

There may be some of that in it. Maybe my standards have dropped!

I think we've all also kinda re-remembered that most sci-fi/fantasy movies aren't perfect, Star Wars itself has had a lot of stinkers amongst the greatness, and that they were (at the end of the day) kids movies we just happened to fall in love with the first three of.

 

[Morrus]

Or Obi Wan Kenobi hiding out where his nemesis grew up, hiding said nemesis's son with his brother, wearing jedi robes as his disguise, and calling himself 'Old Ben Kenobi.' Question: did we know that Queen Amidala's first name was Padme at that point?

I don't know if we did, but the characters in the film certainly did.

Why they do not look cool is a real question for me as well. Why they can't actually use swords is more answerable. Realism in cinematic combat really surged as a priority kinda right after these and the LotR movies -- perhaps as a response to nitpicking of them by the perpetually online pedantry (hello fellow nerds). At the time, the stage fighting from Highlander or Princess Bride was the go-to movie combat of the time. The director's response to 'your combat isn't realistic' would have been 'of course not, it's stage fighting.' Mind you, it could have been good stage fighting...

I don't care about realism. It's all magic laser swords and magic powers. I just don't want them to look weak and ineffectual. Be as unrealistic as you like, but look good doing it.

 

[Amphytrion]

I was a child when these were released, and I have fond memories of them. I don’t think the plot is difficult to understand at all, but assuming these are actual questions:

1. Queen Padme Amidala has Kiera Knightly pretend to be her, while she disguises herself as a handmaiden called.... Padme?

Padme might be an exceedingly common name in Naboo. I’m sure any King George in British history also had an aide also named George, for example.

Padme’s name is the least puzzling bit about the Naboo government, which is fairly strange.

2. What IS that giant room next to the hangar where they fight Darth Maul? Is it the spare walkway storage area for excess walkways? It's in the stone palace/hangar complex, just through a door, and it's this cavernous metal room, clearly bigger on the inside, filled with precarious walkways and some random laser doors which turn on and off sequentially for... reasons? And then a room with a giant hole in it because why wouldn't you have a room with a giant hole in it? Seriously, what IS this room?

I don’t know, maybe a power generating facility. Star Wars is full of these; see Palpatine’s throne room in RotJ.

This isn’t a hard sci-fi franchise and sometimes setpieces just look neat. You can come up with their purpose yourself.

3. I still to this day don't really understand Palpatine's plan. If you own both a giant clone army and a giant robot army, instead of making them fight each other in a giant fake war, why not just use them both to just say "hey, I'm in charge now". Seems like a lot of effort to get to the same goal.

He didn’t own both armies at the start of the conflict, each respective side did. He used the conflict as a pretext to centralize power. This is made fairly clear onscreen more than once.

Also why does Jango Fett leave the clone army planet and fly to the robot army planet? Just so Obi Wan can follow him because plot? I assume this means he's in on the whole thing and knows all about the fake war and the two armies and stuff, since he hangs out at both places.

Jango was under orders from Dooku. He didn’t need to know the entire plan, just follow Dooku’s directives.

4. Why do the Gungans and the droids fight on the Windows XP desktop background?

I’ll never be able to unsee this. Did Windows XP come afterwards?

6. Why can't jedi actually use swords? They just wave them round ineffectually most of the time. I mean, I know it's all fake laser sword nonsense, but at least make it look strong! The main characters are generally OK, Mace Windu isn't great, and all the jedi in that arena just look awful like they've just been handed a plastic sword and told "try to look cool". Which they fail to do.

9-year old me thought they were awesome, and that’s who the movie was for.

7. Talking of which, there's one jedi with a really long 3-foot neck which seems like a massive disadvantage when your primary method of combat is swordfighting (and there's no way he's fitting in a starfighter).

I mean what do you want the Jedi to do? “Sorry our religious order doesn’t allow aliens with long necks”?

 

[Morrus]

Padme might be an exceedingly common name in Naboo. I’m sure any King George in British history also had an aide also named George, for example.

Maybe? Dunno!

I don’t know, maybe a power generating facility. Star Wars is full of these; see Palpatine’s throne room in RotJ.

This isn’t a hard sci-fi franchise and sometimes setpieces just look neat. You can come up with their purpose yourself.

Sure.

He didn’t own both armies at the start of the conflict, each respective side did. He used the conflict as a pretext to centralize power. This is made fairly clear onscreen more than once.

I feel our definitions of "clear" are not the same, as I don't find that clear at all. Maybe I'm not very clever (which is very possible) but I just watched it and came to a completely different conclusion to you.

He--as Chancellor--has the clone army of the Republic.

His apprentice--Dooku--is overseeing the construction of the droid army on (Geonosis?)

It seems to me he's running both armies. If he's not, then I reiterate that the plot is not clear to me.

Jango was under orders from Dooku. He didn’t need to know the entire plan, just follow Dooku’s directives.

Well, he was aware of the galactic war. And he was present at the building of both armies. I'm pretty sure the plan must be obvious to him!

I mean what do you want the Jedi to do? “Sorry our religious order doesn’t allow aliens with long necks”?

I mean, I'm joking. I don't really care. I thought that was an amusing observation. YMMV.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

2. What IS that giant room next to the hangar where they fight Darth Maul? Is it the spare walkway storage area for excess walkways? It's in the stone palace/hangar complex, just through a door, and it's this cavernous metal room, clearly bigger on the inside, filled with precarious walkways and some random laser doors which turn on and off sequentially for... reasons? And then a room with a giant hole in it because why wouldn't you have a room with a giant hole in it? Seriously, what IS this room?

This is a really good question and I remember wondering about the mysterious infinite hole even in the original - it's not like they're on a spaceship, where the whole location would make more sense!

Let's see if Wookiepedia has an answer - oh god it does:

Plasma Refinery Complex

The Plasma Refinery Complex was a large, triple-domed structure erected on the cliff face next to the Royal Palace of Naboo, in the city of Theed. Built to draw vast quantities of rare plasma out of the planet's core, the refinery complex included the Theed Hangar and the city's main power...

starwars.fandom.com

So, I don't think this really helps much, but it is apparently a "plasma refinery" which is, confusingly, a geothermal deal somehow (?) and this is why we have the walkways and infinite drop. Doesn't explain the laser doors really but oh well.

And it also raises questions as to why the palace is apparently literally right next to serious industrial energy production. Kinda like if Balmoral was literally abutting on to Dounreay nuclear plant or something.

3. I still to this day don't really understand Palpatine's plan. If you own both a giant clone army and a giant robot army, instead of making them fight each other in a giant fake war, why not just use them both to just say "hey, I'm in charge now". Seems like a lot of effort to get to the same goal. Also why does Jango Fett leave the clone army planet and fly to the robot army planet? Just so Obi Wan can follow him because plot? I assume this means he's in on the whole thing and knows all about the fake war and the two armies and stuff, since he hangs out at both places.

So this doesn't really make sense until one considers Order 66 in the third movie.

We have to assume that the Jedi might well be able to stop Palpatine if any significant number of them were still alive and in contact with each other, and that this is something that weighs heavy on Palpatine's mind. The whole conflict can be read as a sort of Reichstag fire deal, something to get the public and Senators "on-side" with Palpatine, but more than that, Palpatine needs to get the Jedi out of the way, and at this point there are, IIRC, thousands of them, probably including dozens or hundreds of Jedi Masters or Jedi of Master-level skill (and any 2-3 together of those Masters are probably a match for Palpatine, based on what we see - hell Mace Windu alone is clearly a huge threat).

If the Jedi were just straight-up attacked, presumably Palpatine fears they could escape in an organised way, or maybe even directly defeat the force sent for them, even if terribly overwhelming. And their mind-tricks and other Force powers make it hard to protect yourself from them if they're coming to deal with you, once they're "in the wind".

But by creating a situation where the Jedi are:

A) Split up all around the galaxy distracted fighting the Trade Federation.

and

B) Surrounded by clones who they consider totally loyal, brave, selfless and generally above board (because they are!).

He's then able to use Order 66 to eliminate what, 98%+ of the Jedi?

If he hadn't set up this fake war he couldn't have done that. I do think they should have foreshadowed Order 66 more, because this is a plot that can only make sense retroactively, and even then it takes thinking about. It's not great writing or storytelling, for sure.

 

[Amphytrion]

I feel our definitions of "clear" are not the same, as I don't find that clear at all. Maybe I'm not very clever (which is very possible) but I just watched it and came to a completely different conclusion to you.

He--as Chancellor--has the clone army of the Republic.

His apprentice--Dooku--is overseeing the construction of the droid army on (Geonosis?)

It seems to me he's running both armies. If he's not, then I reiterate that the plot is not clear to me.

He is Chancellor, but to actively command the army’s creation and deployment, he has to get the Senate to yield him emergency powers. This is a subplot in Attack of the Clones and we see this happening onscreen.

Then, by Revenge of the Sith, it is mentioned that he has gotten more extensions of term and even greater emergency powers via dialogue.

Dooku is courting the big trade conglomerates, who actually own the droids. One of their factories is indeed in Geonosis, but they manufacture all over and in separate plants, one would imagine. We see them pledging their armies to him onscreen in Atrack of the Clones.

One would imagine that taking the galaxy by force would unite people against the Sith, and that the Jedi would notice. Better to slowly get people to yield away their freedoms willingly. Besides, it’s not a one-off switch, we see that the Senate is still inconvenient to the Empire many years later in ANH.

(It’s also unclear whether the army is enough for a complete takeover. And we know Dooku could betray Palpatine, as he seemingly attempts to do onscreen).

Well, he was aware of the galactic war. And he was present at the building of both armies. I'm pretty sure the plan must be obvious to him!

Maybe. It doesn’t really matter if he concluded anything, but I doubt Dooku sat him down and explained the plot.

I mean, I'm joking. I don't really care. I thought that was an amusing observation. YMMV.

I know; my response to that particular was also meant in jest. Likewise, YMMV.

 

[Dioltach]

So, I don't think this really helps much, but it is apparently a "plasma refinery" which is, confusingly, a geothermal deal somehow (?) and this is why we have the walkways and infinite drop.

Disregarding, of course, that the planet's core is filled with water, and the palace stands right next to one of the outlets.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Disregarding, of course, that the planet's core is filled with water, and the palace stands right next to one of the outlets.

Right? Like, I don't know Naboo's exact geology, but they did just establish that so it only made it more confusing.

 

[Basic Expert]

I'll take these one at a time:

1. Padme's subterfuge: she went with her own name because Glup Shitto was taken.
2. The giant room: Due to the lethal and destructive nature of lightsabers, Galactic Republic building codes mandate a designated "Lightsaber Dueling Chamber" to prevent collateral damage and general disruption of day-to-day activities. See also Cloud City.
3. Palpatine's plan. True, but he doesn't subscribe to the old adage: "Given the opportunity, tyrants will optimize the fun out of taking over the Galaxy." In other words, it's the journey, not the destination. Let him fly free!
4. Windows XP background fight. The gungans got into Microsoft at $1 a share.
5. Droid factory hurting eyes/brain/soul. Yes, but your earlobes, elbows and toes are fine! With just a little more effort Lucas could have gotten a clean sweep.
6. Jedi saber techniques. Their efforts might seem uncoordinated and lackluster to the untrained eye, but they are practicing a highly-advanced lightsaber form wherein they defend against attacks and opponents many months before they are added in post-production. Truly, the Force is strong with these Jedi!
7. Long-necked Jedi. Disadvantage at swords and starfighters, to be sure, but a 100% advantage with those alien ladies, which as a Jedi he can't take advantage of, so uhh...yeah, bummer dude.