Star Wars RPG--What Happened?

[Ranger REG]

RE: RULEBOOK PRICE ... AGAIN

Sorry, gang. As much as I am a tightwad (trust me, I have a car alarm installed on my wallet), the price of the $40 rulebook is worth every page compared to a typical videogame (for PC/Mac, console, even Gameboy Advance) which last two years until a new version comes out. A rulebook can last at least 10 years or more in terms of entertainment value.

You have to understand this is the new millenium, not 1987. A comprehensive rulebook with both player's and gamemaster's section is pretty cheap compared to a 2-book combo of the most popular fantasy RPG (price have increased now to $30 each).

(Although they could also add in a bestiary section to complete it.)

 

[Ranger REG]

Good stuff here folks! While not a super-fan of sci-fi games, a good one would be at least interesting and somewhat tempting. It's sad that Star Wars D20 has met such a dismal fate. More, and better, could have been done.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I guess I am going against the consensus. While I agree the starship combat rules could have been better (pick up SWG #008 for a sneak peek at an improved version), everything else in the character roleplaying and combat mechanic are good enough for me.

Granted, I never did like the idea that you must stop moving if you're adjacent to an opponent. Then again, I don't like the idea that an enemy can move past my PC without getting at least a parting shot. So AoO is a good compromise.

Maybe it is the stigma that goes with TSR/WotC. They never published made a long-standing sci-fi RPG that rivals D&D. And when WotC received the license to publish Star Wars, most of the hardcore fans of WEG criticized the move, even vowing not to cross over, and attempt to smear every product WotC made when the opportunity arise.

But for a d20 System product, Star Wars d20 is well-made ... just not perfect. Not unlike The Foundation Superhero RPG.

I doubt we'll see it gone.

 

[mmadsen]

I think Star Wars was WotC's opportunity to bring in some new gamers, and they probably should've aimed at a new-gamer demographic -- at least for the first/core book. As it stands, the book is aimed at D&D players who want to play Star Wars.

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

I guess I am going against the consensus. But for a d20 System product, Star Wars d20 is well-made ... just not perfect. Not unlike The Foundation Superhero RPG.

Um, how can you compare SW and The Foundation? Foundation was the worst d20 rule book of all time. SW is flawed, but nowhere near as terrible as the amateur, slapped-together fanboy nonsense Foundation was. Apples and oranges.

If I paid $35 for SW, I would be a bit disappointed, but would still be able to tweak things to get it to work, and it is being supported by WoTC with patches. If I had paid $20 for the Foundation (or even one red cent), I would be super-pissed. Admittedly, Nightshift Games did put up an alternate super rules set on their site that is very good, but you can just DL it for FREE... you don't even need the Foundation to make use of it. GRRRRR!

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Also, WoTC's SW came out at the wrong time. Older fan reaction to Ep.1 was mainly hateful (and justifiably so, IMO), whereas when WEG came out with their version in the late 80s, SW (classic trilogy) was still fondly remembered by these fans who were now old enough to get into RPGs (and were probably already playing D&D). There was no widely reviled Phantom Menace to polarize the fan base. If Ep.2 sux, it will effect the WoTC SW license hard, and I bet we see the SW product line terminated within a year. If its a hit, it may or may not improve WoTC's SW sales.

 

[Welverin]

I'm with Bull on this one. I planned on buying the SW RPG when it first came out, and Wheel of Time as well. I still haven't picked up either and the only reason is the price. For $35-40, my dollar stretches a lot further with the other d20 publishers. If I planned on a running a SW or WoT campaign, sure I'd shell it out, but just to read for my interest and to mine ideas from, no thanks. And a large majority of my RPG purchases are indeed purchased more for interest than direct use.

Well if you quick get to a Game Keeper you can pick it up for 50% off, it's $35 normally. Also most of the other SW RPG books are also on sale.

For a bit of comparison SWRPG is 320 pages long and $35, FRCS is 320 pages long with a poster map and is $40, OA is 256 pages with a map and $35. I'd say SWRPG compares very favorably.

 

[Bull]

For a bit of comparison SWRPG is 320 pages long and $35, FRCS is 320 pages long with a poster map and is $40, OA is 256 pages with a map and $35. I'd say SWRPG compares very favorably.

Err, not really a good comparison. Sorry, I'm not a big d20 player to begin with. And $35 - $40 sucks, pricewise. Like I said, WotC is trying real hard to set a certain precedent for pricing their books at those prices, and that really blows. Look at a lot of other game systems out their. They're apologetic when they put a book out at $30.00 (Hackmasters 400+ pages of dense text and Shadowrun's 350+ pages, also fairly dense text, come to mind), and they also see much smaller print runs, as a whole, than the D&D books. Granted, they're not usually hardback, but they are at least like "We wanted to do it cheaper, but paper costs suck. Sorry guys". WotC tossed out OA and FR within a month of each other, are putting out smaller-than-magazine sized $20+ "key" supplement books every month... Kudo's for them, but that's bloody expensive if you want to "keep current".

The books are decent quality, but they're still heavily overpriced. And this is becoming WotC's standard. And it was asked why sales were poor... That's one reason. I will most likely buy the new SW d20 book, if I have the extra cash lying around, since we play it. But if the book had been $25 or even $30, I'd definately already own it. At $40 and $35, I will never own the FR or OA books. I had a low interest in either of these initially, but the price puts them beyond the realm of a casual purchase.

And in the gaming industry, you can't afford to lose the "Casual audience", and SW did. I know a lot of gamers, most of them very hard core SW fans... And noon of them ever said "Id buy the SW D20 book, but Ep 1 sucked". Not a one has ever said "I'd buy it, but the rules suck." A couple HAVE said that they didn't want it because they like the WEG version and don't feel the need to switch systems. But most that do not have it have said they won't buy it because of the price.

And along those same lines, price is why there is only one FR and one OA book being shared among 3 GMs among various groups and why no one has the Manual of the Planes. MotP has no direct value to our games, so it's unnecessary, and FR/OA are too expensive to purchase multiple copies of.

Bull

 

[PenguinKing]

They're apologetic when they put a book out at $30.00 (Hackmasters 400+ pages of dense text and Shadowrun's 350+ pages, also fairly dense text, come to mind), and they also see much smaller print runs, as a whole, than the D&D books.

Are we conveniently forgetting that Shadowrun and Hackmaster are softcover with poorly-glued spines, and the interior pages are cheap gray paper with low-grade, smudgy monocolor ink? That sort of printing is a hell of cheaper than bound hardcover books with full-color glossy pages.

(Don't forget that you also have to pay the artists, and WotC has better art. )

- Sir Bob.

P.S. Nih!

 

[Horacio]

With $120 to buy gaming books I'd prefer buying four 250+ pages softcover b&w books instead than only three full color hardbound glossy paper books, if the roleplaying stuff were of similar quality...

I prefer spending 40$ in a book plus a supplement, softcover b&w than in only a book, hardcover & color, if rolepalying content quality is the same...

Do you see my point?

 

[Davelozzi]

Re: RE: RULEBOOK PRICE ... AGAIN

Sorry, gang. As much as I am a tightwad (trust me, I have a car alarm installed on my wallet), the price of the $40 rulebook is worth every page compared to a typical videogame (for PC/Mac, console, even Gameboy Advance) which last two years until a new version comes out. A rulebook can last at least 10 years or more in terms of entertainment value.

True. And I've seen the analysis of prices from Ryan and others before and while I'm not bitching that WotC is trying to rip me off or that the books are overpriced in realtion to value. If I was planning on starting a SW campaign, I would shell out the $35 or $40. My point is simply that the price is high enough to keep me from buying it as a casual purchase, to read, enjoy, and steal ideas from. And as Bull stated in his post above, in the RPG market, losing the casual audience is a dangerous proposition.