Star Wars Saga/DnD5th Edition notes

[GreenKarl]

BASIC CHARACTER EXAMPLES
So here are some generic NPC or basic character concepts. None have any species traits added in. I used an Array to create them but with a boost as follows – 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10


Alien Force User
Scout 1st level (Hermit)
Fortitude: 13, Reflex: 15, Will: 14 (recover from Reeling +1)
Hit Points: 24 (HD 1d8; Second Wind 1d8+1), Damage Threshold: 13
Speed: 12 meters
STR 10 (+0), DEX 12 (+1), CON 11 (+0), INT 13 (+1), WIS 15 (+2), CHA 14 (+2)
Proficiencies: Light Armor, Martial Weapons, Pistols, Rifles, Simple Weapons, Tools (Mechanic +3), Tools (Woodcarving tools +3), Vehicle (Speeder +3)
Skills: Insight +4, Medicine +4, Perception +4, Supernatural +3, Use the Force +4
Feats: Force Sensitive, Shake it Off (free)
Talents: Force Perception (Use the Force instead of Perception)
Senses: passive perception 14
Languages: Basic plus one more
Gear: Blaster Carbine with an extra power cell, Blaster Pistol with an extra power cell, Longsword, Utility belt, Short-range comlink, Field kit, Datapad full of various notes on the Force, All-weather cloak, Common clothing, Credstick 100cr.

Aspiring Bounty Hunter
Scout 1st level (Enforcer)
Fortitude: 15, Reflex: 15, Will: 14 (recover from Reeling +3*)
Hit Points: 26 (HD 1d8; Second Wind 1d8+3), Damage Threshold: 15
Speed: 12 meters
STR 12 (+1), DEX 13 (+1), CON 15 (+2), INT 10 (+0), WIS 14 (+2), CHA 11 (+0)
Proficiencies: Light armor, Martial Weapons, Pistols, Rifles, Simple Weapons Tolls (Electrical kit +2), Tools (Navcomputer +2), Vehicle (Starship +3)
Skills: Galactic Lore +2, Gather Information +2, Intimidate +2, Perception +4, Survival +4
Feats: Shake-it-Off* (free; recover from Reeling at start of turn instead of end), Side Step (reaction to reduce damage from one ranged attack by 1d10+2).
Talents: Improved Stealth (have advantage on stealth rolls).
Senses: passive perception 14
Languages: Basic plus one more
Gear: Blaster carbine with two extra power cells, Blaster pistol with an extra power cell, Shortsword, Utility belt, Short-ranged comlink, Field kit, Datapad with four datachips with various wanted and criminal information, Trinket, Combat camo suit, credstik 300cr.

Bash Pilot
Solider 1st level (Military Academy [Soldier])
Fortitude: 14 (17), Reflex: 15 (16), Will: 12 (recover from Reeling +3)
Hit Points: 31 (HD 1d10; Second Wind 1d10+2), Damage Threshold: 14 (17)
Speed: 12 meters
STR 12 (+1), DEX 15 (+2), CON 13 (+1), INT 14 (+2), WIS 11 (+0), CHA 10 (+0)
Proficiencies: Game Set (Sabacc +4), Heavy Weapons, Light & Medium Armor, Pistols, Martial Weapons, Rifles, Simple Weapons, Tools (Mechanic +4), Vehicle (Starship +6)
Skills: Athletics +3, Initiative +4, Intimate +2, Perception +2
Feats: Skill Expertise (Vehicle/Starship)
Talents: Battle Analysis (bonus action, know all allies and foes who are least then ½ hit points and gain +1 insight bonus vs. one target you can see until the start of your next round)
Senses: passive perception 12
Languages: Basic
Gear: Armored Flight Suit (ARS 13, Fort +3, disadvantage with Stealth), Heavy Blaster Pistol, 2 Daggers, Short-ranged comlink, Field kit, Rank insignia, Sabacc set, Common clothing, credstik 200credits

Bodyguard
Solider 1st level (Trooper [Solider])
Fortitude: 16, Reflex: 14, Will: 13 (recover from Reeling +4)
Hit Points: 32 (HD 1d10; Second Wind 1d10+3), Damage Threshold: 21
Speed: 12 meters
STR 14 (+2), DEX 12 (+1), CON 15 (+2), INT 11 (+0), WIS 13 (+1), CHA 11 (+0)
Proficiencies: Advanced Melee Weapons, Game Set (Dejarik set +2), Martial Weapons, Pistols, Rifles, Simple Weapons, Vehicle (Speeder)
Skills: Athletics +4, Insight +3, Intimidate +2, Perception +3
Feats: Improved Damage Threshold (+1 Con checks to recover from Reeling)
Talents: Harms Way (once a round can use a Reaction to take the damage or effect of an adjacent ally)
Senses: passive perception 13
Languages: Basic
Gear: Blaster rifle with two extra power cells, Vibroblade with extra power cell, Longsword, Short-range comlink, Field kit, Rank insignia, portable Dejarik set, Common Clothing, credstik 200credits

Idealistic Noble
Noble 1st level (Royalty [Noble])
Fortitude: 12, Reflex: 15, Will: 16 (recover from Reeling +0)
Hit Points: 18 (HD 1d6; Second Wind 1d6+1), Damage Threshold: 12
Speed: 12 meters
STR 10 (+0), DEX 12 (+1), CON 11 (+0), INT 14 (+2), WIS 13 (+1), CHA 15 (+2)
Proficiencies: Pistol, Simple Weapons, Vehicle (Starships +3)
Skills: Computer Use +4, Deception +4, Galactic Lore +4, Gather Information +4, Insight +3, Investigation +4, Persuasion +4
Feats: Cutting Words
Talents: Born Leader (bonus action +1 insight to attack to allies who can hear and see you)
Senses: passive perception 10
Languages: Basic, Binary plus 3 additional ones
Gear: Blaster Pistol with extra power cell, Dagger, Astromech droid (RE-3X “REX”), Formal clothing, Land speeder car, Short-range comlink, Diplomat’s kit, Fine travel clothing, Holo-nobility displayer, credstik 500credits

Out of Work Mechanic
Scoundrel 1st level (Spacehand [Sailor])
Fortitude: 14, Reflex: 16, Will: 12 (recover from Reeling +3)
Hit Points: 20 (HD 1d6; Second Wind 1d6+3), Damage Threshold: 14
Speed: 12 meters
STR 12 (+1), DEX 13 (+1), CON 14 (+2), INT 15 (+2), WIS 11 (+0), CHA 10 (+0)
Proficiencies: Pistols, Simple Weapons, Tools (Electronics +4), Tools (Mechanics +6), Vehicle (Spaceships +4)
Skills: Athletics +3, Computer Use +4, Investigation +4, Sleight of Hands +3, Stealth +3
Feats: Point Blank Shot (free), Skill Expertise (Tools/Mechanic)
Talents: Fast Repairs
Senses: passive perception 10
Languages: Basic, Binary
Gear: Blaster Pistol with extra power cell, Holdout Blaster with extra power cell, 2 Daggers, Set of Electronic tools, Set of Mechanic tools, Utility belt, Common clothing, credstik 200credits

Padawan
Jedi 1st level (Acolyte)
Fortitude: 14, Reflex: 15, Will: 15 (recover from Reeling +2)
Hit Points: 31 (HD 1d10; Second Wind 1d10+2), Damage Threshold: 14
Speed: 12 meters
STR 10 (+0), DEX 15 (+2), CON 13 (+1), INT 11 (+0), WIS 12 (+1), CHA 14 (+2)
Proficiencies: Lightsaber, Simple Weapons, Vehicle (Starships +4)
Skills: Athletics +2, Initiative +4, Insight +3, Supernatural +2, Use the Force +4
Feats: Force Sensitive (free), Force Training
Talents: Lightsaber Defense (+1 to all defenses with ignited lightsaber in your hands)
Force Powers: Force Slam [telekinetic], Move Object [telekinetic], Mind Trick [mind affecting], Surge
Senses: passive perception 11
Languages: Basic plus two more
Gear: Lightsaber, Quarterstaff, Dagger, Short-range comlink, Breath mask, Field kit, Jedi icon, Datapad, Jedi Robes, Common clothing, credstik 300credits

Smuggler
Scoundrel 1st level (Criminal)
Fortitude: 13, Reflex: 16, Will: 14 (recover from Reeling +1)
Hit Points: 19 (HD 1d6; Second Wind 1d6+1), Damage Threshold: 13
Speed: 12 meters
STR 10 (+0), DEX 15 (+2), CON 13 (+1), INT 14 (+2), WIS 11 (+0), CHA 12 (+1)
Proficiencies: Gaming Set (Sabacc +4), Pistol, Simple Weapons, Tools (Electronic +4), Tools (Security kit +4), Vehicle (Starship +4)
Skills: Deception +3, Galactic Lore +4, Investigation +4, Sleight of Hand +4, Stealth +4
Feats: Deadly Aim, Point Blank Shot (free)
Talents: Sneak Attack (+1d6)
Senses: passive perception 10
Languages: Basic
Gear: 2 Blaster Pistols each with extra power cell, Security Kit, Electronic Tool kit, Common clothing, credkit 300credits

Wilderness Guide
Scout 1st level (Outlander)
Fortitude: 14, Reflex: 16, Will: 15 (recover from Reeling +2*)
Hit Points: 25 (HD 1d8), Damage Threshold: 14
Speed: 12 meters
STR 13 (+1), DEX 15 (+2), CON 12 (+1), INT 11 (+0), WIS 14 (+2), CHA 10 (+0)
Proficiencies: Light Armor, Martial Weapons, Pistols, Rifles, Simple Weapons, Tools (Mechanic +2), Vehicle (Speeder +4)
Skills: Animal Handling +2, Nature +2, Perception +4, Stealth +4, Survival +4
Feats: Double Tap (you can take a -2 to attack with a ranged attack, successful hit deals +1d weapon damage. This consumes two rounds from your weapon), Shake it Off* (free; recover vs. Reeling at the start of your turn instead of the end)
Talents: Acute Senses (advantage on Wisdom/Perception check)
Senses: passive perception 14
Languages: Basic plus one more
Gear: Blaster Carbine with two extra power cells, Blaster Pistol with extra power cell, Club, Dagger, All-Weather cloak, Short-range comlink, Field kit, Datamap reader, Utility kit, Traveler’s clothing, credstik 200credits

 

[Radaceus]

At a cursory glance,

feedback:
Additional Conditions – Reeling;
In order to recover from Reeling, you must take an Action and attempt a Constitution Ability check vs. a DC 10 or ½ the Damage you suffered (round down, whichever is greater). If you succeed with your roll, you are no longer suffering the Reeling condition. If you fail, you still are suffering from the Condition (and can attempted to recover again next round). This is cumbersome, what if you suffered 60 points of damage(30 halved), are you caught in a perpetual state of reeling unless you crit your save? I'd go with a scaled DC save similar to a Spellcasting DC (8+attackers str mod+ attackers level?) or some such thing to keep it in line with 5E

Feats:

Toughness,You gain +1 hit point each level.this is to weak?
Trip, When you have successful grappled an opponent (they are suffering from the Grappled Condition because of you), you can use a Bonus Action to cause him to fall prone in the space he was occupying. This is a contested ability check of your Strength (Athletics) check vs. your opponents Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (they can choice which to use). If you win, you target falls prone and is no longer Grappled. If you fail, he is still considered Grappled. You cannot use the Pin and Trip feat in the same round. This should not be tied to grappling, rather, the wording is fine, but Trip should be another feat with a Skill Contest DC, and this feat renamed something like 'Throw'. Which is the essence of the judo style 'Trip' being described here , AKA a 'Hip Throw'.


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On the whole, this looks really good, much to take in, and hard to determine from a glance what might be possibly OP, some things seem mundane but might have a benefit in the right character build. I like a lot of things here and see potential for more (Submission Hold feat as a higher level Pin?), in summary~nice work!

 

[GreenKarl]

Thanks... yes I am not sure about Reeling but if you are taking 60 points of damage in one hit that is like a HUGE hit. Maybe need to come up with a better way to recover from it... your idea is not bad, but I kind of wanted it tied to damage somehow...
Feats are not as good as they are generally in 5th ed. and the Tough feat in 5th increases your Hit Point maximum by 2 points.
Hmm as for Trip, I think I based it mostly on the Saga feat trip which is why it works with grapple, but yes it might be better just as a normal contest that you can use an attack for...

 

[GreenKarl]

What if I maxed out the DC to recover from reeling to 20? Worded something like this...


---
In order to recover from Reeling, you must take an Action and attempt a Constitution ability check vs. a DC 10 or ½ the Damage you suffered (round down, whichever is greater, but maximum DC 20).

 

[Radaceus]

What if I maxed out the DC to recover from reeling to 20? Worded something like this...


---
In order to recover from Reeling, you must take an Action and attempt a Constitution ability check vs. a DC 10 or ½ the Damage you suffered (round down, whichever is greater, but maximum DC 20).

That would work

Agreed on the high amount of damage, I was using an upper level example, which is where I believe the previous wording would fall apart (not uncommon to deal 40-60 points at higher levels)

 

[GreenKarl]

OK had a big update on the first post... adding Droid characters. I am not 100% happy with it yet and still playing around with the numbers but at least the basics are there...

 

[GreenKarl]

So updated with all our changes from the last 11 months of PBP feedback and thoughts. Still a work in progress

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So, I must have missed it. Are you using Swift Actions or Bonus Actions?

My recommendation, for what it's worth, is to have no "reaction" or 5e style bonus action, and instead have two Swift Actions per round, which can be used either for bonus action type stuff, or reaction type stuff.


Condition Track: What is the point of this change? I meant to ask back when I first posted in this thread, and never got to it. Seems more cumbersome than the Condition Track, while providing less benefit to the game. Honestly, Condition Track and Bloodied are, IMO, vastly superior as game elements to 5e's exhaustion. Could even add in an element where it requires the expense of a Hit Die to move up the Track, thus making the track part of your slow healing variant decision.

Skills: Supernatural? Anyway, if you're making tool proficiencies work like 5e rather than like Saga, you need to account for that in how many skills each class gets. Especially if you're dropping Saga's x+int skill number calculation. I'd say either add 3-4 proficiencies per class from a list, or simply state that each character can choose 3-4 of any tool or vehicle proficiency regardless of class. As it is, my Sky Slicer riding Jedi mechanic has a hard time being proficient in the things he is currently proficient in under Saga, and it seems like there will be a lot of that.
Also, why doesn't Con have any skills?

Talents: Why not keep talents mostly as they are, and give characters slightly more of them? One of the big problems with Saga is that characters are much more starved for talents than feats. Unless you are consolidated skill trees into single talents, you're likely to make this worse by beefing up talents to 5e feat levels.

Advantage: One thing Saga does better than 5e is having both Advantage (albeit not called that) and "reroll but you have to take the second result". You've given a noticeable boost to many abilities by turning them into Advantage. Is that intentional?

Prestige Classes: I like the lower level of requirement, and that you're getting rid of some of the egregious talent requirements (like Force Adept's original 3 force talent requirement)

I didn't read every little thing. Did you keep "weapon finesse" or are you making some weapons into finesse weapons?

Why rework Force Powers much at all? They work pretty much verbatim in 5e, other than the DC numbers being come to on a different math model.

 

[GreenKarl]

So, I must have missed it. Are you using Swift Actions or Bonus Actions?

In some places yes, in others no. It kind of was case by case. Reactions also. Some things just had to be changed and the 'action cost' had to reflect that. We have talked about it over in the OOC thread of the PBP game on a lot of this...

Condition Track: What is the point of this change? I meant to ask back when I first posted in this thread, and never got to it. Seems more cumbersome than the Condition Track, while providing less benefit to the game. Honestly, Condition Track and Bloodied are, IMO, vastly superior as game elements to 5e's exhaustion. Could even add in an element where it requires the expense of a Hit Die to move up the Track, thus making the track part of your slow healing variant decision.

Mostly to cut down on the things people needed to track and for simplicity. I like the Wound Tracker in idea but not in practice. Again just to make things run faster

Skills: Supernatural? Anyway, if you're making tool proficiencies work like 5e rather than like Saga, you need to account for that in how many skills each class gets. Especially if you're dropping Saga's x+int skill number calculation. I'd say either add 3-4 proficiencies per class from a list, or simply state that each character can choose 3-4 of any tool or vehicle proficiency regardless of class. As it is, my Sky Slicer riding Jedi mechanic has a hard time being proficient in the things he is currently proficient in under Saga, and it seems like there will be a lot of that.
Also, why doesn't Con have any skills?

Supernatural is the re-named Arcana skill. Yes I added more 'Tool' proficiency to most of the classes. Although this means that Soldiers and Jedi get more "options" (skills & tools) then they do in Saga but I am cool with that.

So your Sky Slicer Jedi would starts with 2 skills & 1 tool (tool, vehicle or musical instrument), and now making assumptions, a Criminal Background gives him 2 skill + one game set and one tool (from electronic, security or slicer). If he was human he gets one more. You get as many feats as you did in Saga and one of the Feats is Skill Proficiency.

Talents: Why not keep talents mostly as they are, and give characters slightly more of them? One of the big problems with Saga is that characters are much more starved for talents than feats. Unless you are consolidated skill trees into single talents, you're likely to make this worse by beefing up talents to 5e feat levels.

Again because Saga and 5th don't match up really well on a lot of things. Skill re-rolls but you have to accept the worst etc. are basically rolling with Advantage but not as good. Certain conditions are also different like Charms and Frightened. So I re-worked them as best as I could to make them fit 5th while still having the flavor of Saga.

Advantage: One thing Saga does better than 5e is having both Advantage (albeit not called that) and "reroll but you have to take the second result". You've given a noticeable boost to many abilities by turning them into Advantage. Is that intentional?

While it sort of works it would just add another layer or rules that I did not want to carry over. The thing I like most about 5th over Saga is its (mostly) simple and straight forward. There are not a ton of bonus and circumstantial/situational modifiers. They just got to be too much especially for higher level Saga characters. Simple is better for me

Prestige Classes: I like the lower level of requirement, and that you're getting rid of some of the egregious talent requirements (like Force Adept's original 3 force talent requirement)

Yea I did not like the super high level for starting Prestige classes and someone in my PBP game brought up the Force Adapt idea as originally I did have them still requiring 3 force talents.

I didn't read every little thing. Did you keep "weapon finesse" or are you making some weapons into finesse weapons?

Why rework Force Powers much at all? They work pretty much verbatim in 5e, other than the DC numbers being come to on a different math model.

I keep the 5th rules for finesse weapons, so most light weapons (and lightsabers) are considered finesse and can use Strength or Dexterity for attack and damage.

As for Force Powers, once again they did not match up with 5th very well. Maybe things had the damage threshold or had certain affects that don't exist in 5th. As with everything else I tried to keep it as close as I could to the feel of Saga but make them fit in 5th.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I will consider some of it again