D&D 4E Star Wars Saga Edition as preview of 4e?

[SteveC]

I'm glad to be seeing so much love and optimism towards the new edition.

From sampling D20 Modern, I do worry about too many cues being taken from the talent tree system. Most talents were sort of flat and dull. Unfortunately, I have to say I'd use both those adjectives to describe the jedi sentinel talent tree that the preview offers.

I will have to agree with you here, Felon, on D20 Modern's Talent Trees. It seems like a lot more attention went into some of the trees than others, and that some of them just weren't that interesting. The Strong Hero's in particular if memory serves.

As far as these go, they seem to have a lot of "reroll in this circumstance" type of ability. The Dark Side Scourge ability (add Cha to melee damage against dark siders) would be a lot more interesting in D&D, but a couple extra points of damage on an already large attack (a vibroblade does 2D6) isn't that great. The Force Haze ability, on the other hand, looks great!

As far as the new "saves are now defenses," I would hope that they have some ability for people to affect the outcomes of a failed roll: one of the purposes of the saving throw was to give a feeling of empowerment to the players, after all.

In any case, I like a lot of what I see here, and I'm looking forward to the next installment...

--Steve

 

[Warbringer]

...

If Chalkazza attacks himself with his bowcaster...
... he needs a 13 to hit himself (+0 to hit, 13 reflex save)
... he does 3-30 damage. The average is 16.5 damage, so this will normally hit the threshold.
... on average, it will take 2 successful shots to knock him out.

cheers!

Thanks Merrick

So... where do hit points fit in? Lethality?

 

[Klaus]

This system would be easy to switch to players-roll-all-the-dice, my very favoritest UA variant.

I went one step further with that and turned attack and defense into opposed rolls. Wroks specially well in a 1-on-1 game.

 

[teitan]

I suppose I am alone in thinking that there should be less, not more, character customization should there be a 4th Edition. Make it a class based game again, not a point based one.

No, no you're not. I am seriously debating going back to 1e or 2e for my next campaign.

 

[Felon]

I don't think it's either one, since it's been said that skill points are a thing of the past. As a rough guess, I would say that the bonus for a known skill is something along the lines of:

4 + (1 * Character Level) + ability score modifier + miscellaneous modifier

Or it could be a flat +5, with any modifications stemming from feats and talents. The upshot of that would be to make such skill-boosting feats and talents more attractive. A lot of D20M players view skill-boosters as lame because (in D20M) there aren't many high-DC uses for skills, with a 20 or 25 representing the ultimate level of success. Thus, skill-boosters aren't viewed as helping you attain the unattainable, they just cause you hit the ceiling at a fairly low level. That is another beef folks like myself have with D20M.

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

Or it could be a flat +5, with any modifications stemming from feats and talents.

Maybe, but then your back to tracking ranks, with only the type of "currency" used to purchase them being changed. My hunch is that skills will have some sort of level based progression, so that the level of the character becomes more important than how you spent your points.

 

[Felon]

Maybe, but then your back to tracking ranks, with only the type of "currency" used to purchase them being changed. My hunch is that skills will have some sort of level based progression, so that the level of the character becomes more important than how you spent your points.

As long as you have feats and talents, you're going to have bonuses of some kind or other to keep track of. That's not going away. And rest assured, there will be some feats and talents that provide bonuses to skills.

And you're not really dealing with the same level of cubersomeness. It's one thing to figure out if your character has properly alloted his 96 skill points, including half-ranks for cross-class skills, with any particular skill ranging from 1 to level + 3. It's another to keep track of 5 for the skill plus 3 for the skill focus talent.

 

[RodneyThompson]

As long as you have feats and talents, you're going to have bonuses of some kind or other to keep track of. That's not going away. And rest assured, there will be some feats and talents that provide bonuses to skills.

Oh? Will there?

 

[Alnag]

I don't think it's either one, since it's been said that skill points are a thing of the past.

I am sorry. I must have missed that. Where is it written acutally?

 

[Treebore]

I prefer the stronger character archetypes.

I like the direction they're headed with simpler more efficient base classes and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of talent tree and prestige class character customization in order to differentiate your characters. This simpler system has the potential to me to remain more "balanced" but would allow us greater flexibility to really make 100 warriors with no two looking the same.

That sounds great for the player, but I am sure I would hate it as a DM, eventually. Just like I got tired of 3E.

I want to DM a system where it is easy for me to see where a character is going and that I won't be shocked by surprise power combinations that I was unable to see coming.

Irregardless I look forward to seeing how a lot of stuff is being handled in the new SW. It looks like a lot of things will be simplified and still work well. In whatever game system I use it in.