D&D 4E Star Wars Saga Edition as preview of 4e?

[wayne62682]

The rumor I heard is that a lot of potential 4e ideas are being "tested" in Star Wars Saga edition, since it's a smaller sampling figuratively speaking to D&D.

 

[mmadsen]

So, we've got:

• Fewer yet more flexible base classes that have incorporated Talent Trees ala d20 Modern
• Flatter hit points curve--you start at 1st level with 3 HD, but advance more slowly and (presumably) top off lower in total hit points
• Defense (Armor Class?) rolled up into saving throws

As I've already made those changes in my own game -- actually, I rolled hit points into a Damage Save/Class too -- I think they're a great idea. I also agree that they're a way to try out new ideas for D&D.

 

[JoeGKushner]

• Fewer yet more flexible base classes that have incorporated Talent Trees ala d20 Modern

• 
  
  They could eliminate classes completely at this point and just provide different 'costs' for skills and include combat ability (BAB) in those skill lists. Huge swatches of preconstructed talent trees to cut down on future bloat from feat/PrC combos would be great.
  
  

  [*]Flatter hit points curve--you start at 1st level with 3 HD, but advance more slowly and (presumably) top off lower in total hit points

  
  No secret that players are fragile at starting and high levels thanks to save or die effects.
  
  

  [*]Defense (Armor Class?) rolled up into saving throws

Not enough info.

Anyway, along with a lot of rather vague talk about streamlining of the rules in combat to be previewed still, what do you think of these as possible directions for 4e to go as well? To be honest with you, I think they're kinda exciting. Before today, I would have told you that I had no interest in 4e and probably would be an extremely late (if ever) adopter of the ruleset when it comes out. If this is a preview of what 4e might look like, though, I may start singing a different tune.

4th Ed is going to have to have TON of flexibility and reduce the clutter and provide more core options for players and pregenerated material for the lazy.

 

[yipwyg42]

Ok the defense tied to saving throws is very interesting to me. I'm wondering if Armor is going to be damage reduction.

I might implement this into a D&D game.

Basically your AC vs attacks would be 10 + your reflex + dex.
I would then have Armor equal to Damage Reduction using the UA rules, or just having the AC of the armor as the amount aborbed (Plate would have DR of 4 or 8 depending on which one).

 

[Ry]

I would love it if these kinds of decisions were going into 4e. I think they make it easier to have fun even if you're just starting, and I think the game needs that.

 

[Henry]

I suspect 4e will have one hit die per level. That's quite a sacred cow there.

Maybe not -- they used to top out at 9th or 10th, remember?

I must say I'm curious on the "Reflex as AC" idea, and I'm curious to see (A) if it's a correct reading of the examples, and (B) how it plays.

 

[WayneLigon]

I must say I'm curious on the "Reflex as AC" idea, and I'm curious to see (A) if it's a correct reading of the examples, and (B) how it plays.

That has me curious all over again as well. I'm always interested in seeing another way to handle combat mechanics. If this is a preview or test drive of some 4E concepts, I hope it goes over well. Then again, I'd have said that d20 Modern was a test drive of 4E as well.

I'd like to see an Unearthed Arcana II with some of their test drive ideas in it

 

[Delta]

I'll be the critic -- I tried to use d20 Modern to develop a Starcraft game for my group, and it was the Talent stuff (replacing stock class abilities), along with Occupations, that made my eyes cross and had to give up the project. As DM I already feel overwhelmed dealing with separate Class, Skill and Feat systems... when it becomes multiple Classes, Skills, Feats, Talents, and Occupation for a single PC or NPC then I really have to wave the white flag.

The example stat block is 20 lines long for a stock 1st-level character. Maybe I'm an old fogey if I say that's just more complexity than I can deal with at 1st level.

 

[teitan]

So far Saga doesn't look like a headache. The example charsheet was nice and simple and short, just what I like. I can't wait for this book.

 

[JoeGKushner]

The example stat block is 20 lines long for a stock 1st-level character. Maybe I'm an old fogey if I say that's just more complexity than I can deal with at 1st level.

The problem with most 1st level characters is that they're incompetent and easy to kill. I'd sacrifice a little simplicity if it meant that the character could do things successfully most of the time and survive being hit by a greataxe.