D&D 4E Star Wars Saga Edition as preview of 4e?

[Gentlegamer]

I love the new skill system! Please, please bring that to D&D!

 

[Shalimar]

I really like the consolidation of a lot of the skills, since the wide variety of skills in D20 vs the very limited skillpoints seems punitive

1)Spot + Search + Listen + Sense Motive = Perception
This change really makes sense to me since the breakdown between Spot and Search generally served to let marchingbands sneak up on characters because there wasn't enough skill points to go around. I'm a little wary on Sense Motive being rolled into it, but I can definitely follow the logic of why it fits into what they want Perception to be

2)Craft Skills --> Repair
I actually don't like this change, the ability to repair something is not the same thing as building it, nor is the ability to build a blaster pistol the same thing as the ability to build a Deathstar, I would highly doubt that the change would make it to any future D&D Edition

3)Skill Point Removal/ Trained Untrained System
I don't really know enough about this change to judge it, but my first impression is that it is way too generic.
1/2 Level + Ability Mod + 5(Trained) + 5(Skill Focus)
There are just 3 levels of Skill: Untrained, Trained, Specialized (Skill Focused), everyone has one of those three levels of skill and the only difference comes from Ability Mod and 1/2 Level. They wanted simple and they certainly got it, the question is if theydumbed it down too much.

3.1) This system makes it 100% that all force users will take Skill Focus: Use Force since its the only Force skill and all force powers are derived from it.

OVER ALL: I'd be very much in favor of the skill consolidation making its way into DnD without the Craft Skill removal, but that is based on a peculiar set of rules that lets people in Star Wars use either skill.

 

[Gentlegamer]

3)Skill Point Removal/ Trained Untrained System
I don't really know enough about this change to judge it, but my first impression is that it is way too generic.
1/2 Level + Ability Mod + 5(Trained) + 5(Skill Focus)
There are just 3 levels of Skill: Untrained, Trained, Specialized (Skill Focused), everyone has one of those three levels of skill and the only difference comes from Ability Mod and 1/2 Level. They wanted simple and they certainly got it, the question is if theydumbed it down too much.

Each skill will have trained/untrained uses, so even if the skill roll bonus difference is not great, the uses of the skill will be. Also, talents and class/race abilities will further add different utilities and specialties to skills.

I think it shapes up to an awesome use of the d20 system to formulate a skill system! My faith in WotC rules design has just increased quite a bit.

 

[Shalimar]

Each skill will have trained/untrained uses, so even if the skill roll bonus difference is not great, the uses of the skill will be. Also, talents and class/race abilities will further add different utilities and specialties to skills.

I think it shapes up to an awesome use of the d20 system to formulate a skill system! My faith in WotC rules design has just increased quite a bit.

That is not really addressing my issue though. I am saying that three levels of skill difference are not enough. The untrained levl isn't the problem, I actually like the fact that people untrained in a skill can attempt things with the skill, for instance untrained you can most likely operate a speeder since everyone in the universe isn't a pilot and yet they some how manage to get to work.

The real part where this system will breakdown to me is Trained and Specialized. Not everyone in the same profession that operates on a professional level is equally skilled. The 3 level breakdown is just graduated enough to allow for 3 characters who are trained and focused to have varying degrees of skill (ie rank 10 vs rank 12 vs rank 14 in the old system), they are all the same assuming that they are the same level even though it might make sense for one or more of them to be slightly less skilled because they spent more time on something else. You can't have someone who has 8 ranks in diplomacy and 6 ranks in sense motive when the only option is for them to be equal in both (assuming they aren't skill focused in either).

 

[Thaniel]

This is why there are talents and feats to augment skills or certain parts of the skills. The skill system can't be seen as a closed system anymore. It's integral with the talent system. Taking it by itself doesn't help any argument, because you're not looking at the whole picture. We all need to just relax and wait for the rest of the pieces.

 

[Gentlegamer]

That is not really addressing my issue though. I am saying that three levels of skill difference are not enough. The untrained levl isn't the problem, I actually like the fact that people untrained in a skill can attempt things with the skill, for instance untrained you can most likely operate a speeder since everyone in the universe isn't a pilot and yet they some how manage to get to work.

The real part where this system will breakdown to me is Trained and Specialized. Not everyone in the same profession that operates on a professional level is equally skilled. The 3 level breakdown is just graduated enough to allow for 3 characters who are trained and focused to have varying degrees of skill (ie rank 10 vs rank 12 vs rank 14 in the old system), they are all the same assuming that they are the same level even though it might make sense for one or more of them to be slightly less skilled because they spent more time on something else. You can't have someone who has 8 ranks in diplomacy and 6 ranks in sense motive when the only option is for them to be equal in both (assuming they aren't skill focused in either).

You're focusing too much on the total skill bonus as a measure of skillfulness. I'm betting talents will make a huge difference.

 

[Stalker0]

I love these new ideas, they definately jive with my idea of how the skill system should look. The idea of talents letting you reroll checks and taking 10 or 20 is a good way to differentiate, I like how they are going with it. Adding numbers is boring, but rerolling is fun, so that will make skills more interactive.

I think the rolling of craft and repair together is fine. I mean, you can't have it both ways. Spot and Listen are very different things, but I have no problem with that being rolled into one. Craft and Repair are two different things, but again for game purposes....does it really matter? I am a little unsure of sense motive being rolled into perception, as that tends to be a bit different, but I'm willing to roll with it.

I bet money that you can't take skill focus with use the force, because I agree what force using character wouldn't take it?

I'm curious now how you get trained skills. Does every class get a set number of trained skills. If so, how does multiclassing work with that?

I think the differentiation is fine with 3 tiers, because there's a big difference between them. I mean a +5 for trained is a BIG bonus, +5 for SF is a big bonus!! In a party, if your the tech guy, and you have training and skill focus in repair, I think +10 is plenty to ensure that you are the guy when it comes to droids. While another player in the party can try to help, I think it ensures niche protection.

All in all, I like it very much.

 

[Jedi_Solo]

After reading this my main concern is the question 'what part of skill X is Trained Only?'

Player: Can I do this?
GM: Nope, that's for Trained Only.
Player: What about this?
GM: Trained Only.
Player: Let me guess...
GM: Yup.

While having an entire skill be Trained Only may not have made sense all of the time at least it was easy to mark on the character sheet if it was Trained Only or not.

 

[Alnag]

Initiative as skill. Yes!!! Great idea. Simple and perfect! I love the designers! And I desperately want this in D&D 4e!!!

 

[Nikosandros]

I'm really liking what I'm reading so far...

I'll definitely buy the book.