D&D 4E Star Wars Saga Edition as preview of 4e?

[pawsplay]

A fantastic example they didn't use was from The Empire Strikes Back. Pursued by the Imperial fleet, Han and Chewie are desperately trying to get the hyperdrive working. Yet, the Falcon is still evading the pursuing TIE Fighters. Who is piloting? The auto-pilot? Nope! It's Princess Leia!

That's not a laser blast. Something hit us.

Han! Get up here!

And, as you point out, they got hit. Also, she is a trained pilot. I'd rather see Jabba the Hutt perform a Tumble check, there you've got yourself a strong argument.

 

[GreatLemur]

Well, Bo9s maneuvers and how they are allocated still reminds me too much of Vancian. Recovery aside, you start with x maneuvers and gain new maneuvers as you level doesn't seem much different than you start with x spell slots and new spell slots as you level.

"Vancian" normally refers to the "fire-and-forget" nature of D&D magic, particularly in prior editions (before the Sorcerer and Warlock class experiments). Recovery can't really be put aside, because it's part and parcel of the Vancian magic concept, where you "unforget" the next day. The Recover-per-encounter is what makes Bo9S and the upcoming SECR different, because having X of *anything* which increases with level is a function of a level-based RPG, not the Vancian approach to spell casting.

I don't think it's completely unfair to describe the martial maneuvers system as Vancian magic lite. Sure, you get all your maneuvers back at the start of each encounter, and can even recover them in combat through one kind of action or another, but it's still got that weird, counter-logical angle where, after you've expended the ability, it becomes mysteriously unusable for a while. And it's not because you've become too exhausted to use it, since you can still use other maneuvers, even higher-level ones. Not to mention the weirdness of not being able to use maneuvers you've known for several levels and were just using yesterday, simply because you didn't "ready" them today.

It's still a nice little subsystem and definitely less suffocating that real Vancian magic, but there are some weird little similarities that seem out of place in a martial arts system.

 

[Gentlegamer]

And, as you point out, they got hit.

Yup, and she knew she couldn't handle the asteroid field.

Also, she is a trained pilot.

Until then, had she ever been shown to have anything to do with piloting? I'd say she was untrained, but was high enough level to have the basic skill to pilot the Falcon in an emergency.

I'd rather see Jabba the Hutt perform a Tumble check, there you've got yourself a strong argument.

That might not be a problem for the SE Jabba from A New Hope. Older Jabba is obviously "handicap."

 

[JohnSnow]

I just regard it as the side-effects of adventure heroes.

They're all ridiculously talented. If you weren't using d20, you'd be wondering where Luke learned to shoot like that, or how to sneak around a heavily guarded fortress, or swing across a chasm with a grappling line.

Or how to throw said grappling line in the first place. For that matter, Luke's a fair pilot, but he's never been in an X-Wing before.

And I'd like to point out that when Luke & C-C3PO went haring after R2, Threepio was driving the landspeeder. Yes, the droid can drive.

Star Wars is full of stuff like this. Han and Luke know how to ride giant arctic kangaroos? Leia knows how to repair starships? Luke Skywalker - who grew up on a desert planet! - can swim? Leia and Luke are crack speeder bike pilots? Han can hot-wire security systems? Since when?

By the way, did anyone ever notice that the one film in which Luke Skywalker has his own blaster pistol (The Empire Strikes Back), he never fires it even once? I mean, sure, he draws it menacingly a few times...

 

[buzz]

Fiction and RPGs are two separate, but related, things.

 

[pawsplay]

Yup, and she knew she couldn't handle the asteroid field.
Until then, had she ever been shown to have anything to do with piloting? I'd say she was untrained, but was high enough level to have the basic skill to pilot the Falcon in an emergency.

I think that simply shows she is a trained pilot. Hand the Falcon's controls to ME, and I would be like, "What does that flashing light mean?"

Leia is a trained Rebel. Apart from looking dashing with pastries in her hair, she's also a crack shot with a blaster, and qualified to lead commando strike teams. She's been to Rebel school. She is a trained pilot, and is proficient in space transports.

Luke is a fantastic pilot, but NOT proficient in space transports.

I want to see Jabba the Hut making a Tumble check to accept the argument of "everyone has high skills in everything anyway." Or let's see an Ewok repair a droid. And if Kenobi is a better pilot than most Jedi of his level, does that simply mean that he and Anakin both have Skill focus?

 

[Plane Sailing]

I want to see Jabba the Hut making a Tumble check to accept the argument of "everyone has high skills in everything anyway." Or let's see an Ewok repair a droid. And if Kenobi is a better pilot than most Jedi of his level, does that simply mean that he and Anakin both have Skill focus?

What if all the tumble things require TRAINED use of the skill, and his half level plus -4/-5 Dex penalty don't cut it? Putting Jabba arbitrarily at 10th level, untrained, and with a reasonable Dex penalty (could even be a -5 penalty for Dex=1) that would give him a +1 or +0 tumble bonus and unable to perform trained only tumble stuff.

I don't see any problem there, frankly.

 

[pawsplay]

What if all the tumble things require TRAINED use of the skill, and his half level plus -4/-5 Dex penalty don't cut it? Putting Jabba arbitrarily at 10th level, untrained, and with a reasonable Dex penalty (could even be a -5 penalty for Dex=1) that would give him a +1 or +0 tumble bonus and unable to perform trained only tumble stuff.

I don't see any problem there, frankly.

What if they do? We don't know.

As for a -4 Dex penalty, that's just ridiculous. I'm not buying that Jabba has a Dex of 2.

 

[Plane Sailing]

As for a -4 Dex penalty, that's just ridiculous. I'm not buying that Jabba has a Dex of 2.

Whyever not? He's a slug, with flabby, unco-ordinated arms, who barely moves. I'm generous if I don't suggest he has a Dex of 1 !

 

[JohnSnow]

Whyever not? He's a slug, with flabby, unco-ordinated arms, who barely moves. I'm generous if I don't suggest he has a Dex of 1 !

Can you tumble while fallen? According to my OCR Star Wars (and I quote), Hutts are ALWAYS considered fallen.

First learn stand, then learn tumble.