Star Wars Spoilers Thread [Spoilers]

So here's my review: 100% a Star Wars film which belongs with the original trilogy.

It's a transitional film, but it does it well. The new generation is really good.

I think the major death was kinda signposted a bit. You knew it was coming long before it happened. I felt worse for Chewie, but he, Rey, and BB8 make a great team.

Is this the first Star Wars film where nobody gets their hand cut off?

Luke lives in Ireland, eh?

Question: WHY was there a map to Luke, and why was it split into two? I feel like I missed something. For that matter, why a map and not just some coordinates? Seems like a random puzzle set up for the sake of it.

 

[Cor Azer]

Beats "Dooku"!

So that's the plan of the Dark Side - they want to rename everything so it's impossible to take anyone seriously through the fits of laughter!

 

[MoonSong]

Well, I have finally gotten the chance to stick around and write.


[I am a huge fan of the prequels, I started watching the saga with Episode I, and didn't see the original trilogy until after Attack of the clones, and somehow had to have the Palpatine=Sidious thing being spelled out to me.

so in short, my opinions could be very unorthodox, so please don't get angry or mad]

One of the biggest problems of long franchises is the way they handle second and third generation fans during major revivals that go "back to basics". The first generation demands this revival be as suited to them as possible at the expense of younger fans. This was a problem for DC comics, this was a problem for D&D, and it is a problem for Star Wars. The force awakens spends quite a long time disowning the prequel trilogy it isn't funny. There are a subtle "take that prequels" here and there, but nowhere as bad as in the attack on the Republic, I cringed on my seat as I saw Coruscant blown apart without they even bothering to call it by name -well, reading this thread it turns out it wasn't Coruscant, but I didn't know that when I saw a planet that looked like Coruscant, had the narrative role of Coruscant and made quack like Coruscant, so to me it was Coruscant and I had the same emotional response as if it was Coruscant-. The message was clear, they went scorched earth on the prequels, no more intrigue, no more politics, only adventure and lone pilots singlehandedly solving problems by blowing massive superweapons.

Thankfully the movie has actual substance to make up for the cheap pandering to the original trilogy die-hards. While the main plot is a carbon copy of A new hope, the actual story is far more interesting and completely distinct, with the main revelations well kept in secret instead of spoilered in the trailers. And there are enough hints and little reminders that somehow redeem the prequels, for example Kylo Ren/Ben Solo truly looks and feels like Anakin's grandchild.

The movie really feels like a Star Wars movie; it hits all the points you'd expect from a Star Wars movie. It relies a lot more on comedy than usual, but it helps the movie to be child friendly, because it is way darker than the other entry points: A new Hope and the Phantom Menace. The fast pace works like a charm, the acting is amazing, and the new characters are interesting and likable. The dramatic exchange between Ben and Han was great. The tension and the expectation go perfectly, you really want Ben not to smash that door, you really want Han to reach him, you want to believe it is possible, yet deep down you know it is not true and it is the end for Han...

And speaking of Han, his character goes full circle. Despite it being a tragedy, it was a worthy end for him. From a selfish rogue who cares for nothing but his own hide to a mature man who dies for love. I can't think of a more beautiful swansong.

(Oh yes, and this is also the first time stormtroopers are allowed to be competent and scary on-screen.)

 

[Shadowdweller00]

Overall a reasonably strong positive for me. Some things I really liked and some things I...didn't care for much.
(Hope none of the following qualify as spoilers).

Good:
- Plotting
- Characters in general.
- The "secret" tragedy
- The fact that neither Finn nor Rey are unrealistically fantastic pilots.
- Loved the whininess of Kylo Ren, and the occasional temptations he has by the Light Side of the force.
- The resilience of the latest superweapon, in contrast to a certain convenient ventilation duct in the original film (SW IV)

Bad:
- Finn's "transition" at the beginning doesn't quite seem believable to me. Good try, but doesn't quite get there.
- I thought the First Order's dogma could have been fleshed out a bit better. What do they claim to fighting against exactly? (There is a speech explaining this, it's just a bit too nebulous)
- I also think the operating relationship between First order, Republic, and Resistance could have used a bit more detail.
- Seemed like Supreme Leader Snoke could have used a bit more gravitas. But perhaps he will be fleshed out a bit better in later films.
- Couple plot holes. For example - Kylo Ren is supposedly a well-trained warrior, but gets defeated and embrassed by individuals who have no prior training with a lightsaber. There are ways this could have been made more believable - play up the debilitation of Ren's previous wound a bit more or the Fate/Destiny aspect of the Force, for example.
- Another: Why does a supposedly minor officer like Phasma get a name whereas the basic stormtrooper grunts get only a designation code?
(Both fairly minor niggles)
- Use of yet another superweapon to create urgency.

 

[Umbran]

- I thought the First Order's dogma could have been fleshed out a bit better. What do they claim to fighting against exactly? (There is a speech explaining this, it's just a bit too nebulous)

Is the truth likely to be anything more than, "Snoke wants to run everything"? If not, then why do we care what they say their issues are, if the reality is that Snoke is a BBEG?

- Couple plot holes. For example - Kylo Ren is supposedly a well-trained warrior, but gets defeated and embrassed by individuals who have no prior training with a lightsaber.

With respect, Kylo Ren just took a bowcaster shot. You know, that weapon they took great pains, several times, to show usually sends people flying? So, you know, wounded and bleeding. And while they may not have been Jedi, both Finn and Rey were experienced or trained combatants.

- Another: Why does a supposedly minor officer like Phasma get a name whereas the basic stormtrooper grunts get only a designation code?

She's Captain Phasma. Not a minor officer. She's the equivalent of someone in command of a Star Destroyer, but for ground troops.

 

[Umbran]

Oh, and one of the Best Things Ever:

https://twitter.com/KyloR3n?ref_src=twsrc

 

[Shadowdweller00]

Is the truth likely to be anything more than, "Snoke wants to run everything"? If not, then why do we care what they say their issues are, if the reality is that Snoke is a BBEG?

Because unless you're deliberately pushing the unknown nature of a villain toward some purpose such as creating fear or mystery, then a nondescript villain is equally as unimposing, uninspiring, and ineffective as a nondescript hero.

With respect, Kylo Ren just took a bowcaster shot. You know, that weapon they took great pains, several times, to show usually sends people flying? So, you know, wounded and bleeding. And while they may not have been Jedi, both Finn and Rey were experienced or trained combatants.

Until the point (after a token bit of chest-thumping) he seems to completely shrug the injury off in hackneyed, action-hero style. Don't get me wrong - the rudiments of justification are potentially there. There's just nothing (that I recall) that communicates the apparent weakness during the fight...such as a flinch, misstep, or slightly shaking hands. There's equally no real hint of supposed form, skill, or prior training on Ren's part beyond the contrast of Finn's fumbling with the saber.

She's Captain Phasma. Not a minor officer. She's the equivalent of someone in command of a Star Destroyer, but for ground troops.

The supervisor of a sanitation worker.

 

[Grumpy RPG Reviews]

So that's the plan of the Dark Side - they want to rename everything so it's impossible to take anyone seriously through the fits of laughter!

It's a thinly veiled Ren & Stimpy joke. Think of Kylo Ren as Ren and you'll never see the movie the same way again.

In the next movie Ren start's slapping the hell out of Hux,, calling him a fat bloated idiot.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

They have an intimidating and threatening villain named "Snoke". I don't think they're all that worried about whether the character's name is macho.

Not about macho. Supreme Leader Snoke rolls of the tongue, and sounds like a villains name. Just not the same kind of villain as Darth Vader or Kylo Ren. Emperor Palpatine isn't scary, and Darth Sidious sounds villainous in an entirely different way from Darth Vader.
I wouldn't expect the same, or even similar, naming conventions for Snoke and Kylo Ren.

Until the point (after a token bit of chest-thumping) he seems to completely shrug the injury off in hackneyed, action-hero style. Don't get me wrong - the rudiments of justification are potentially there. There's just nothing (that I recall) that communicates the apparent weakness during the fight...such as a flinch, misstep, or slightly shaking hands. There's equally no real hint of supposed form, skill, or prior training on Ren's part beyond the contrast of Finn's fumbling with the saber.

The supervisor of a sanitation worker.

His technique gets less and less smooth and controlled as the fights wear on. By the end, he's swinging just as desperately as Rey, relying entirely on strength and familiarity with the weapon, and still almost kills her. ALso, Finn uses the saber in a way that indicates that he's been trained, at least in the basics. The guy he first fights also seems to know how to counter a lightsaber. These things suggest that First Order troopers are trained to use and counter lightsabers.

Capt. Phasma isn't his direct supervisor. She's the scary person he had to report to for evaluation as to his ability to continue performing his duty. She's also clearly in charge of the ground assault in the beginning.

 

[AverageCitizen]

I saw the movie again today - actually, several folks call him "Ren". So, to them at least, it is pretty much a surname.

Which starts to make it look like the Knights of Ren are named after him... and that makes them even more a sop to his immature ego....

Exactly. Seems like Snoke used the idea of Ren being Luke's rival instead of his student as part of his conversion. Luke founded the Jedi, Kylo founded the Knights. This movie focused on Han and Ren but I expect there is plenty of inferiority complex baggage in Ren's relationship with his old master/uncle.

 

[Umbran]

The supervisor of a sanitation worker.

1) He was in sanitation when he was on the station, before the movie. The first time we see him, he's shifted to a combat role.

2) Not the direct supervisor, no. He said it was his first combat, so he is perhaps the equivalent of a Private or Corporal. His direct supervisor would be something like a Sergeant. However...

3) A Captain is typically in charge of a company of soldiers or an individual ship, and will still take interest in the performance of individuals. I would imagine especially if there's a conditioning program that needs monitoring... when she probably also came through that program.