Star Wars: To Modernize The Force Or Not To Modernize The Force?

[arscott]

why not just create force-based talents and bonus feats for pre-existing base classes?

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

I think adding a BASE class would be clunky, really. Just seems weird to add a base class outside of the 6 ability cognates.

Although it hasn't been done before, I was thinking of making most of the class abilities from the SWd20 jedi classes into Talent Trees or a single talent tree with various pre-reqs that would put them available at different levels to different base classes. Wulf added a talent tree that spans three base classes in GT (for spellcasting). I don't see why one couldn't be made available to ALL of the base classes.

Or, alternately, available to Strong and Smart. Both of them have a bit of a dearth of standard trees, so adding something to them could be nice. It would take Smart in a new direction, that's for sure. Have it available to both classes with branches that require some of the talents that are Force Skill oriented and Sabre Combat oriented to take, etc. I was building up a rough working of it before it became obvious nobody was currently interested in a SW game other than me.

And in a game based on skills (Force Skills, Psychic Skills) I've found that Skill Emphasis becomes REAL popular.

--fje

 

[Ranger REG]

See, this is why I DON'T like AdCs for the Force, because Anakin and Luke are supposed to be oddities in the Jedi. Most children are caught very early and trained from a very young age to be Jedi, but Anakin was a slave and Luke was born in an era after the Jedi had died out. By making them AdCs and presupposing non-Jedi experience before they start gaining levels you chop out any possibility of using the system for earlier era StarWars gaming.

Maybe I'm overly worried about that, but I'm contemplating some sort of Tales of the Jedi era game and it would seem pretty odd to do it with AdCs when the Jedi supposedly had been training from young children.

I dunno. I kinda like the idea of being a Jedi Knight by 4th level. If anything, you can either add a bloodline template for the Skywalkers. As for having Padawan at 1st level, one can take a Padawan Training Occupation before gameplay or later, according to d20 Modern Occupation rule.

 

[3d6]

If I were doing it, I think I would create a "Jedi" occupation that gave you Force Sensitive as a bonus feat, and gave you a few Force skills as class skills. Then I'd convert Jedi guardian and Jedi consular into advanced classes. (Or, just create a "Jedi" class, and let the different possible base classes give you the distinction. Yoda could be a Dedicated hero, while Anakin could be a Strong or a Fast.)

 

[Kanegrundar]

Adding base classes isn't all that clunky at all. RPGObjects has done it in their Darwin's World game (both in the CR's and their Vault Dwellers add-on), it works pretty well.

Kane

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

If I were doing it, I think I would create a "Jedi" occupation that gave you Force Sensitive as a bonus feat, and gave you a few Force skills as class skills. Then I'd convert Jedi guardian and Jedi consular into advanced classes. (Or, just create a "Jedi" class, and let the different possible base classes give you the distinction. Yoda could be a Dedicated hero, while Anakin could be a Strong or a Fast.)

I don't like that idea. Pretty soon any Jedi takes the occupation. But it makes sense if they were trained as kids. Maybe make it a "Cloistered" occupation so non-Jedi could take it, too.

Adding base classes isn't all that clunky at all.

Some people don't like that, though. (I know I'm one of them.) Besides, Jedi are an FX-using class, making them more powerful than other classes. That shouldn't be available at 1st-level.

See, this is why I DON'T like AdCs for the Force, because Anakin and Luke are supposed to be oddities in the Jedi. Most children are caught very early and trained from a very young age to be Jedi

I have a hard time picturing that many little kids having members of such a powerful class. IMO it takes a certain amount of knowledge, wisdom, power, etc (levels!) to actually be a Jedi. This is where a Cloistered-style occupation would fit.

 

[Kanegrundar]

Some people don't like that, though. (I know I'm one of them.) Besides, Jedi are an FX-using class, making them more powerful than other classes. That shouldn't be available at 1st-level.

I don't see why that should be. Just because they use FX, doesn't mean that the powers would be any stronger than the Talent Trees of other Base Classes (if written right). I understand the idea of not liking another Base Class, but calling it more powerful before it's even seen just because of FX doesn't make any sense.

Kane

 

[Ranger REG]

If I were doing it, I think I would create a "Jedi" occupation that gave you Force Sensitive as a bonus feat, and gave you a few Force skills as class skills. Then I'd convert Jedi guardian and Jedi consular into advanced classes. (Or, just create a "Jedi" class, and let the different possible base classes give you the distinction. Yoda could be a Dedicated hero, while Anakin could be a Strong or a Fast.)

Doesn't the Force-Sensitive feat already allow you to add certain Force skills as permanent class skills in SW d20? You can port that benefit over to d20 Modern engine.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Tangent: People are discussing updating d20 Modern FX rules for 3.5 psionics rules.

Wouldn't it be easier (and roughly balanced) to simply give them Telepath and the Battlemind the PP and powers known progressions of 1st through 10th level Psions and Psychic Warriors, respectively? Doesn't the original Telepath use the 3.0 Psion's power progression anyway?

Then, leave their other class abilities alone except as needed for the update-- which I can't recall there being any need for.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Some people don't like that, though. (I know I'm one of them.) Besides, Jedi are an FX-using class, making them more powerful than other classes. That shouldn't be available at 1st-level.

As somebody said, properly written, Talents for, let's say "Force Users", shouldn't overpower the other classes in what they do. I agree that there should be a "Jedi Training" occupation for the traditional Jedi who start as children, granting a very low Wealth bonus, Force Sensitive, and perhaps two skills that are related but unimportant. Then begin branching into the Talents. It would actually be weaker power-wise to build them as talents (since Talents acrue on odd levels, as opposed to the core classes of SWRPG who get class abilities frontloaded for the first few levels).

I have a hard time picturing that many little kids having members of such a powerful class. IMO it takes a certain amount of knowledge, wisdom, power, etc (levels!) to actually be a Jedi. This is where a Cloistered-style occupation would fit.

It's maybe odd, but they say that's how it's done in the first two movies. They initially refuse Anakin entrance because, at 9 or whatever, he's too old to begin the training. Because the main characters of the movies (who are oddities) have to wait to begin their training means nobody else started early? It's much easier to model it the "standard" way and make exceptions for Anakin and Luke in converting/building PCs than to begin with the assumption that they do something else entirely for three levels before becoming anything more than Force Sensitive.

I've never been a big fan of SFX AdCs. NonSFX AdCs tend to expand on abilities the character could already in many ways do. An investigator PC can use Gather Information, when he takes Investigator he can use it in a new way. An AdC Mage has no spellcasting ability until 4th level when suddenly he starts whipping out Magic Missiles. This is why I scrapped all of those AdCs for my Modern games and went with either talent systems, feats'n'skills systems, or CoC style "Learn As You Go" spells. I've never had someone complain that the SFX fellow got a better deal ...

--fje