Star Wars WEG D6 - The Force Point - "Is it a good thing?"

[Celebrim]

For a long time I had considered the WEG D6 Force Point to be one of the more elegant mechanics in gaming. My positive impression of it was formed very early, from the first time I saw one used in my very first WEG Star Wars game more than 30 years ago. We were all for the most part playing characters drawn from the movies and so of course someone wanted to play Boba Fett, and so we had this Boba Fett knock off in the group. And in the climatic scene of the adventure, one of the PCs was knocked off into one of those Star Wars pits with no guard rails that ended a lava pit or some such and the bounty hunter (whose turn it was) said, "Can I spend a force point to fly up and catch him?" So of course he could and he had to make like four different rolls on his turn, but with the help of his force point and some lucky rolls he dramatically succeeded at the dramatically appropriate time, and everyone in the group was humming the main theme, "bum bum bububabum bum bup a bum bum bupapabum!" and cheering it was blast and is still the most perfect example of what the mechanic is supposed to accomplish that I've encountered in 30 years of play.

And there is the rub. Most of the time Force Points do not work like that. Lately instead of being primarily used to make dramatic things happen at the dramatically appropriate time, they are being used as win buttons to overcome challenges with minimal drama, because that's the motivation of players in any TTRPG really. Characters in stories - in the movies - are always making it by the skin of their teeth, because the author is playing both sides of the story and can always drag his characters out of both frying pan and fire as needed. But the characters themselves are not motivated to risk their life in stupid ways unless you as the author force them to and the players are trying to keep alive their character and win and not just win by the slenderest of margins on all occasions.

For those with experience with the mechanic or any metacurrency that can be used to dramatic effect - and the Force Point is probably the most powerful metacurrency in any game I know of - how do you deal with force point dumping during the climax? How do you deal with balance when it becomes a metacurrency fight, where the only way to really survive against metacurrency is to use your own? And note, I had preemptively implemented as a house rule a 12D6 cap on any skill specifically because I expected and anticipated this would be a problem, but the trouble is the party is soon going to be in a position to spend metacurrency to be on par with virtually any character in the game universe but conversely would get destroyed by characters with inherent 12D6 skills if they had no metacurrency to spend.

We are 72 sessions into the game and I still have no idea how to make a balanced interesting encounter between the randomness of the system, the statistical narrowness of what is an interesting challenge, and the fact that no matter the challenge, if someone wants to spend a force point they can probably get it done.

 

[Deset Gled]

and the fact that no matter the challenge, if someone wants to spend a force point they can probably get it done.

I'm going to preface this by saying I loved the SW WEG D6 system, but it's been a darn long time since I've played it and I didn't look anything up.

The way I remember playing was that Force points were rare. Really rare. The GM only handed them out if you did something to seriously sway the Force your way, and I seem to remember there being a limited number you could bank, too.

In fact, as I remember playing, the most likely time to get a force was when you spent a force point. If you used it for something really risky and heroic, you'd be awarded a replacement at the end of the adventure. If you used a force point on something boring or non-dramatic, you wouldn't get another one for awhile. And if you dared use a Force point on something truly mundane, that could even lead to a Dark Force point for selfish action.

 

[Reynard]

I run SW d6 sometimes. When I do, I convert Force Points to something more like Momentum and Threat from 2d20. That is, there is a pool of these points and the players are free to use them, but if they do they go to my GM pool. And if I use those, the go back to the player pool, and so on. In my experience, this is the best way to use metacurrency. It is always a real choice with consequences.

As to the idea of force points being a "win button" -- my method means the bad guys get win buttons too.

 

[Celebrim]

The way I remember playing was that Force points were rare. Really rare.

You only start with one of them and they must be used for a heroic task. If they are used for a heroic task in a dramatic way, you not only get one back, but your pool grows by one. If you use them for a non-heroic task, then you lose them permanently. The trouble of course is that they are heroes, more or less, and as long as they stay on task most anything you do to stop a terrorist or a gang of cannibals or help find a cure for a rogue bioweapon killing people by the millions or whatever they are up against is arguably heroic. If they do it at the climax of the story, and especially when they do it to save the lives of an innocent or a colleague, then it's also dramatically appropriate.

We're 9 long adventures and 2 short adventures into the campaign and I've been pretty stingy about awarding Force Points. As of the most recent session, I think 4 of the 5 bounty hunters have two. No one has more than two. But still, they are really potent and having at least two is a really potent thing because you can spend one while saving one back in case you need a 'saving throw' in a tight spot. One adventure took a shortcut when a character used a Force Point to persuade a separatist sympathizer to put them in contact with a holdout Separatist Admiral, something they were doing on behalf of the nascent rebellion. There was nothing conceptually wrong about when or why the Force Point was used (the conclusion of a dramatic gambling scene between a hunter and the smuggler) but also meant that they didn't have to slowly build up reputation amongst the smugglers by doing side quests before someone would decide to trust them (DC 26 roll was nearly impossible without earning some bonus dice, unless the force is with you).

They are making really hard to design for what is already a fairly hard to design for system. I can counter and have countered by giving major villains a couple of Dark Side points to spend, but offense beats defense and a villain using the points aggressively is likely to kill a PC outright. I'm just curious if anyone with more experience than I have has some insight into how this plays out and how you keep the dramatic tension going without doing a lot of fudging and illusionism.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

And there is the rub. Most of the time Force Points do not work like that. Lately instead of being primarily used to make dramatic things happen at the dramatically appropriate time, they are being used as win buttons to overcome challenges with minimal drama, because that's the motivation of players in any TTRPG really

As I remember, you only recover spent force points if you use it a dramatically appropriate time. If you use it to do something boring then it’s gone for good. That would seem to be specifically intended to address your issue.

 

[Deset Gled]

One adventure took a shortcut when a character used a Force Point to persuade a separatist sympathizer to put them in contact with a holdout Separatist Admiral, something they were doing on behalf of the nascent rebellion. There was nothing conceptually wrong about when or why the Force Point was used (the conclusion of a dramatic gambling scene between a hunter and the smuggler) but also meant that they didn't have to slowly build up reputation amongst the smugglers by doing side quests before someone would decide to trust them (DC 26 roll was nearly impossible without earning some bonus dice, unless the force is with you).

I would say that if you're playing by the Original Trilogy version of the Force, this sounds like a story where spending the Force Point would not only lose it, it would earn a Dark Force Point.

Necessary? No. Heroic? No. Gambling? Bah!

Your party chose the way that was quicker. Easier. More seductive. The path to the dark side, this is.

 

[Staffan]

As I remember, you only recover spent force points if you use it a dramatically appropriate time. If you use it to do something boring then it’s gone for good. That would seem to be specifically intended to address your issue.

As I recall, it was more tied to intent than drama: using one for evil purposes would lose it and gain you a Dark Side point (which had a chance of turning you into an evil NPC), using it for selfish but non-evil purposes (e.g. survival) would just lose it, using it heroically would give it back to you, and using it heroically at a dramatically appropriate moment would give it and another one back (I'm not 100% confident about the terms for the last one, but something like that).

But! There was also a rule about starting each adventure with a minimum of 1 force point. So even if you spent your last force point on something selfish, you'd have it back for the next adventure. That's actually one of my issues with them: it's really hard to get above 1 which is what you need to care about the difference between selfish and heroic.

I have to say that conceptually, I like the force points in FFG better, but unfortunately they are much weaker. At the start of each session, all the players roll a Force die, which can result in one or two light or dark side points (the die has an equal number of light and dark side points, but more sides with dark side on them). These points are put in a common pool, where the players can spend light side points and the GM dark side points (mostly to give a small-ish bonus to an action, to make an action a little more difficult for an opponent, or to do some dramatic editing). The clever thing is what happens when you use them: you flip the token over to turn them into a point of the other side.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

That's actually one of my issues with them: it's really hard to get above 1 which is what you need to care about the difference between selfish and heroic.

Not my experience. Maybe your players are not very good at being heroic, or you don’t set up the opportunities? It’s certainly not a mechanic that encourages sandbox play.

 

[Celebrim]

I would say that if you're playing by the Original Trilogy version of the Force, this sounds like a story where spending the Force Point would not only lose it, it would earn a Dark Force Point.

Necessary? No. Heroic? No. Gambling? Bah!

Your party chose the way that was quicker. Easier. More seductive. The path to the dark side, this is.

You are making unwarranted assumptions here. The PC wasn't gambling with the smuggler for profit. The PC was trying to befriend the smuggler who was also a noted gambler in order to get information about the location of a separatist Battlecruiser operating in the area. Although the PC didn't know it, they were working for the organization which will become part of the Rebel alliance and the Separatist was being recruited for the cause. Leaving aside the question of whether gambling can be heroic if the ends are noble, the force point was not spent during the gambling. The force point was spent on a Persuasion roll (not a Con roll!) to convince the smuggler of the honorable intentions of the Hunters, and that they were not in fact working for the Empire to capture the Separatist Admiral (who had a significant bounty on his head).

If you are going to argue that the light side isn't aligned with attempts at diplomacy and persuasion, and instead force points properly only should be spent on violent acts in violent conflict, then I'm not sure there is much point in discussing this.

 

[Staffan]

Not my experience. Maybe your players are not very good at being heroic, or you don’t set up the opportunities? It’s certainly not a mechanic that encourages sandbox play.

I only played Star Wars D6, never ran it, and it's probably been 30 years since I last did. But let's see if I can find the phrasing... right, here it is. Getting the point back means "Being Heroic", which can require "Exposing yourself to great danger", "Sacrificing to help others", or "Taking big risks to help the Alliance or fight the Empire." So far, so good. But getting more Force Points requires doing so at a dramatically appropriate moment. This requires recognizing that moment, which may or may not come a few times per adventure, and also not having already spent your force point.

I mean, we mostly played Star Wars in our lower teens, and it's possible the GM was a bit stingy with dramatic opportunities. But I remember it feeling like it was really hard to start climbing the force point ladder, and that it was much easier to fall down (as spending a force point to save your butt was "unheroic").