Star wars - which version?

[Wik]

Mods, a request? I have a feeling this thread just might get closed soon, which would be unfortunate. It's an interesting thread subject, and I for one would love to see some more talk on the various versions of Star Wars over the years.

 

[Dave0047]

Dude, if ya read even just a little bit, I believe I have stayed 100% on topic, and mentioned Saga Edition in each one of my posts.

My whole point is that the newest edition of Star Wars Roleplaying, Saga Edition, is IMO infinitely better than the WEG d6 version, the original WotC d20 version, and the WotC Revised d20 version.

I'm defending my opinion from those that would say otherwise (and those that poke and jest at it), that the newer game versions are better. Saga holds a special place in my heart due to how balanced, fun, and true to Star Wars it is.

There is no need for theatrics in pretending you're preventing mods from closing what are valid discussions on the topic at hand.

Admittedly I'm a bit passionate when discussing...well anything on the Intarwebz, but my points of discussion, however opinionated they may be, are still on topic and backed-up by facts.

SAGA RULEZZZ!

 

[Wik]

And now a bit more on the subject at hand.

I realize I posted on this earlier, but I've been thinking about it a bit more, and realized I have a few more points worth adding.

First, a disclaimer. I've never been a star wars fan. When I first started playing the game, I had never even seen the movies. In fact, I watched the movies because I was a fan of the RPG, which is weird, I know. After I watched the movies, I was around thirteen or so, and for awhile thought that the Endor speeder-bike scene was AMAZING (I realize now it was because of the environment, but bear with me).

When we played d6 Star Wars, it was very much space opera as covered in the original books, but often with the serial numbers of Star Wars shaved off. It was also, by some unspoken agreement, "Jedi Lite". When we did play with Jedi characters, they were inevitably the "Quixotic Jedi" archetypes for some reason - hard-drinking former jedi who had fallen on hard times.

Anyways, we loved the game. We even loved some of those old ideas the game supported that no are no longer "cool" at modern tables - using scripts to set the opening scene, using a caller, and the like.

The strength of the game is that it supports many different types of gameplay using the exact same rules interface. Flying a spaceship is the same as driving a speeder-bike, which isn't much different than firing a gun or climbing a cliff.

But where the game REALLY flies is the action economy. Whereas d20 variants have a limited number of actions per round (in fact, most games follow this model), d6 allows many more actions - however, each action reduces all actions within that round. So, a character that fires a gun once might roll five dice for that shot. if he fires twice, he'd roll four dice for each shot.

Simple enough, but what this tends to encourage in play is PCs taking ownership of the scene, and actually describing their actions. In essence, a character will fire a shot, jump through a doorway, and then fire two shots at the guys on that railing above, all in one three-second round. Which is a very Star Wars thing to do.

I don't know what it is. But I've played games with hardcore d20ers who, when playing a d20 system, will say "I attack" or "I cast spell X". And then, two minutes into d6, are vividly explaining just how they fire their blaster while dodging incoming fire. Again, this may just be my table, but I've found d6 fires the imagination in a way d20 can sometimes have difficulty with.

Another poster mentioned that d6 only has coverage for a very specific era in the game, and that is probably true. However, d6 is VERY capable for on-the-fly rulings. Every time I've run it, I've been able to handily make NPCs with almost no prep - sometimes I can do it in less than five seconds. Only Savage Worlds comes close to this speed of play. Provided you already know the material, creating new mechanics is a breeze.

I have played d20 Star Wars (not SAGA, though). I was not impressed, for a couple of reasons.

First, the rules didn't streamline as well as d6. Flying a ship felt different than flying a speeder bike. And combat was something entirely different than a negotiation. While this might be a minor quibble, I've always preferred to mix up my scenes in Sci-Fi - so that while one guy is flying the ship, another is using the guns while a third is trying to plan a route using a computer.

Second, the action economy of d20 doesn't work to emulate that cinematic flavour. In d6, I can fly a speeder bike at top speed while also shooting a pistol at someone - this is more or less impossible in RAW d20.

Third, the characters in d20 are way too limited, in comparison to the source material. When you have X number of classes to choose from, and you have a character type in mind, sometimes it becomes a matter of sacrifices to your character concept because of the class you play.

Fourth, tracking wounds and vitality in d20 is fun and all, but I much prefer d6's "you're hurt or you're fine" resolution system.

So, yeah. I pick d6 as my system of choice for Star Wars. I feel it's the best cinematic offering out there, and one that really gets the players moving. In fact, it is still one of my all-time favourite systems, and it saddens me that the newer WEG stuff is often just a bug-ridden mess. I'd still play it today, and many of my players would be more than willing to switch as well.

 

[Wik]

Dude, if ya read even just a little bit, I believe I have stayed 100% on topic, and mentioned Saga Edition in each one of my posts.

discussions of 4e D&D vs older editions is not on topic. And they wind up devolving into unwinnable fights on this site. Inevitably, the threads get closed. Which is something I'd like to avoid seeing here.

My whole point is that the newest edition of Star Wars Roleplaying, Saga Edition, is IMO infinitely better than the WEG d6 version, the original WotC d20 version, and the WotC Revised d20 version.

And some people disagree. Fair enough, I'd think. It'd be a pretty boring site if everyone agreed with each other all the time.

I'm defending my opinion from those that would say otherwise (and those that poke and jest at it), that the newer game versions are better. Saga holds a special place in my heart due to how balanced, fun, and true to Star Wars it is.

Why do you need to "Defend" your opinion in the way you're going about it? Name-calling and attacks are not the way to go. Personally, I'd say d6 is more fun than d20, and possibly SAGA (never played SAGA, but I've seen a bit of it). Do I think d6 is more balanced? I'm not sure. But definitely more fun, in my experience.

Does that make me wrong? Nope. Does that make you wrong? Nope.

So why fight about it?

There is no need for theatrics in pretending you're preventing mods from closing what are valid discussions on the topic at hand.

I've seen threads get closed for less. I'd rather not see that happen. But you're right - maybe I was being a bit theatrical. Maybe I could have messaged the mods privately - but I decided I didn't want to message all of them. I thought an open request was the right way to go.

Admittedly I'm a bit passionate when discussing...well anything on the Intarwebz,
but my points of discussion, however opinionated they may be, are still on topic and backed-up by facts.

No offence meant, but that's the wrong way to go about a discussion on the internet. If you start with name-calling and attacks, you can have all the facts in the world, and people will think you're wrong just because of your approach. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of the people reading this thread are siding with the people you are arguing against, even though they might personally prefer SAGA.

Anyways. That's the last I'll say on the subject. Here's hoping the thread goes back to being a civil discussion on the differences of the various Star Wars games. I'd appreciate your help in the matter.

 

[Dave0047]

discussions of 4e D&D vs older editions is not on topic.

But again you're missing the part where I referenced mentioning Saga in every post.... How convenient that you point that out and in doing so continue to troll.

And some people disagree. Fair enough, I'd think. It'd be a pretty boring site if everyone agreed with each other all the time.

Agreed.

Why do you need to "Defend" your opinion in the way you're going about it? Name-calling and attacks are not the way to go.

Name-calling and attacks? Hmm... don't remember doing any such thing, just trying to explain my opinion of Saga being king while being shot down by multiple posters...

Maybe I could have messaged the mods privately - but I decided I didn't want to message all of them. I thought an open request was the right way to go.

Ugh. I get it, you have a thing for mods. Message them, make your post bold and red like them, whatever. They aren't needed in what is a passionate conversation on which versions of a roleplaying game are better. I say Saga, and I'll defend it when people say it's "unbalanced" and "this other game is better because <insert blatantly false statement here>".

If you start with name-calling and attacks

If you start with making stuff up to troll people, I guess that's why threads you post in get shut down.

Anyways. That's the last I'll say on the subject. Here's hoping the thread goes back to being a civil discussion on the differences of the various Star Wars games. I'd appreciate your help in the matter.

And here's to hoping someone takes three seconds to read my arguments and figures out that I'm actually (heatedly) discussing and defending why Saga is better, on a thread that's called "Which Version". If someone says something silly like, "Well I heard Saga Edition doesn't use d20's at all and that makes it bad and stuff", then I'll reply back with "Actually it does use d20's, it says so in the rules". Though that's not a great example, you understand what I'm saying. If that sounds "mean" or seems like an attack on the individual that is not providing an answer to the thread but just saying that Saga isn't the best because <insert blatantly false statement here>, yeah sure, I'll defend it.

Ugh, I'm getting a headache. Why is this so hard? Why am I not allowed to respond with civil (and rather blunt) statements when someone tries to poke a hole in my SAGA RULEZ balloon?

 

[wingsandsword]

There is no need for theatrics in pretending you're preventing mods from closing what are valid discussions on the topic at hand.

Since you appear to be new here, a couple of handy pointers.

1. Threads really have been closed for less before, and given official warnings for less pretty often. Hostility isn't well tolerated here, far less than most other boards. Since this is a nice topic, we are wanting to keep it open.

2. The very idea that later editions of a gamer are objectively "more fun" than earlier editions has lead to multiple flame wars and lots of bad blood here in the past. As one gamer to another: you'll find things a lot happier here if you just live and let game when it comes to editions of choice. You can have favorites, you can have ones you prefer or dislike, but understand that they all have an appeal and there are lots of people who won't give up their edition of choice for a later one on the idea that someone tells them it's "more fun".

 

[Dave0047]

Since you appear to be new here, a couple of handy pointers.

1. Threads really have been closed for less before, and given official warnings for less pretty often. Hostility isn't well tolerated here, far less than most other boards. Since this is a nice topic, we are wanting to keep it open.

2. The very idea that later editions of a gamer are objectively "more fun" than earlier editions has lead to multiple flame wars and lots of bad blood here in the past. As one gamer to another: you'll find things a lot happier here if you just live and let game when it comes to editions of choice. You can have favorites, you can have ones you prefer or dislike, but understand that they all have an appeal and there are lots of people who won't give up their edition of choice for a later one on the idea that someone tells them it's "more fun".

Well, I'd love to continue this discussion as well. I posted in this thread because I was putting in my two cents. I was just defending those two cents when people came at them with those penny-cutting scissors.

I'm also not arguing that all later editions of games are "more fun" than earlier editions by default, because that's incorrect. I'm simply saying that as far as the Star Wars roleplaying games are concerned, they have gotten better (as have other systems by the same company, as evidence that they are trying harder and are successful at it).

Though, if someone came up to me and told me that Wizards had just released their new "Anthology Edition Star Wars Roleplaying Game" and that it was "more fun", I'd most definitely give it a try. Word of mouth is a very important part of promoting RPG's. Sure, people can find the appeal to older editions, and yes everyone will like and dislike each one, but that's what we're discussing here. For me, Saga (and other new WotC games). What's your favorite and why?

 

[TarionzCousin]

... as there's probably several hundred times more D&D players now than there were in 1st/2nd ed (which is also obvious).

No way. The number of players in the 1e/2e era outstrips today's numbers.

I never said that, directly. I said that the newer editions of these RPG's very directly have a larger player base and....

[MENTION=74305]dbgoldberg323[/MENTION], how exactly is "a larger player base" not equivalent to more players?

Also, it's not "obvious." You claim to be citing facts, but all I see are your opinions.

 

[Piratecat]

For the moment I've removed dbgoldberg323 from this thread for being spectacularly rude. Please take this as an object lesson, folks. We ascribe to Wheaton's Rule - "don't be a dick" - and while it's tough on a subject that you care about passionately, we ask that everyone abide by that.

 

[giant.robot]

So...an on-topic reply...

If you want to try out the D6 Star Wars can don't want to or can't find any of the WEG books the free D6 Space rules are essentially the revision Star Wars rules without the Star Wars license. It's even got the "Metaphysics" chapter which are the same as the Force rules with a slightly different naming convention. Outside of some specific skill names I've found these rules to be fairly compatible with all 2nd and 3rd edition WEG material. The best part is you can give copies to all the players so everyone can get up on the rules and you're not limited to a single WEG book you bought off eBay.

While I like the Saga rules a lot due to their similarity to D&D (which means finding players is more likely) the D6 rules are a good match for the setting. As someone else mentioned the D6 rules are very cinematic even if they do involve several dice rolls every round. The Wild Die and character/Force points let players attempt difficult actions their base die and modifiers might not let them normally succeed at. I've had characters with 2D in an ability roll for a heroic difficult thanks to several 6s on the Wild Die.

I recommend that you use 12mm D6 instead of the typical 16mm ones. The smaller dice are easier to roll when you're rolling six at once. Dice trays help keep things in order as well. Even a relatively low power game will end up with two dozen dice on the table at any given time. It helps when all the players are using different colors or their dice are all in the tray in front of them.