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Starcraft and d20 Future

snarfoogle

First Post
arscott said:
What was is specifically that you liked and disliked about the various zerglings?

Arkhandus Zergling
Pros: Good stats all around, nice in combat for a CR 2
Cons: CR2, magical beast creature type, size Medium. Constitution is a little low.
Arscott Zergling
Pros: CR1, Abberation creature type, size Small
Cons: Int -- I don't think it would be mindless. The swarm is at least as smart as an animal with a cerebrate. It would probably decrease to mindless for rogue zerg. Dexterity looks low for crack addicted little dogs of death.

Sizes: watch the Starcraft cinema where some guy in a car hits a zergling. It appears to be Small size.

Type: The Magical Beast might fit crunchwise, but I think Abberation makes more sense for flavor reasons.

Personally, if I was making a Zergling, it would look like this:

STR 12, DEX 17, CON 10, INT 1 (-- w/o cerebrate), WIS 6, CHA 4
Hit Dice: 2d8+0 (9), Size: Small
Attacks: Claw +2 melee (1d4+1) or bite +2 melee (1d6+0)
(You only get 1/2 strength for secondary natural weapons, right?)
Fast healing 1, etc.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward for the vehicles. I might try my hand at making a Corsair or Scout... I really want to play a Protoss Dogfighter.
 

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Captain Tagon said:
Was your statement here about the purchase DC or the rifle or just the rifle's stats itself?

The rifle, I believe. You can't balance it with purchase DCs.

GoodKingJay said:
Sorry, Psi. I should've been clearer. I know that weapons should not be more or less powerful based on PL. Rather, I'm more concerned with a general formula for finding the purchase DCs of items. For instance, if I look at a rifle that deals 3d8, 80 foot range increment, and autofire, what might the purchase DC be for that? Those stats are equivalent to the laser rifle (PL 6), which already has a specific purchase DC, but that's not my point. Rather, I'm wondering how a GM would come to that number based on the statistics of a weapon.

I'm saying the laser rifle in D20 Future is not balanced. It should be an exotic weapon, or do 2d8 damage. There is no purchase DC that can balance it, but a feat (eg Exotic Weapon Proficiency (heavy laser rifle)) could do it.
 

arscott

First Post
snarfoogle said:
Arkhandus Zergling
Pros: Good stats all around, nice in combat for a CR 2
Cons: CR2, magical beast creature type, size Medium. Constitution is a little low.
Arscott Zergling
Pros: CR1, Abberation creature type, size Small
Cons: Int -- I don't think it would be mindless. The swarm is at least as smart as an animal with a cerebrate. It would probably decrease to mindless for rogue zerg. Dexterity looks low for crack addicted little dogs of death.
The lack of Int score was supposed to reflect an uncontrolled zerg. Skeletons don't suddenly gain an Int score when being directed by a necromancer, so why should zerg get one when controlled by a cerebrate? The dex was low becaue it's already a tad powerful for CR 1, and less than spectacular stats help balance it out.

Sizes: watch the Starcraft cinema where some guy in a car hits a zergling. It appears to be Small size.
Actually, my size entry was wrong. In the planning stages, I'd switched his size (and associated stats) from small to medium, but never fixed the entry. They're definately on the small/medium borderline, though. I figured they're about the size of a big dog (which is listed as medium in the D20M book).

Type: The Magical Beast might fit crunchwise, but I think Abberation makes more sense for flavor reasons.
This one I definately agree with. Changing a Creature type because it's got a better progression seems like a silly move when you can just add HD to make a creature stronger anyways.
 

snarfoogle

First Post
arscott said:
Actually, my size entry was wrong. In the planning stages, I'd switched his size (and associated stats) from small to medium, but never fixed the entry. They're definately on the small/medium borderline, though. I figured they're about the size of a big dog (which is listed as medium.)

I think we should agree to disagree. Advancement. The 1 & 2 HD Zerglings are small, and the 3-5 HD Zerglings are medium.

I'm trying to do a Corsair right now... does anyone know where in the d20 Future book it lists base Starship speed by size? The engines list a bonus, but I don't know what the base speed is to work off of.

Also, would the basic Corsair pilot be Trained? Because the wraith stat block lists the pilot as Ace, which I don't think is quite right.
 
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GoodKingJayIII

First Post
Also, would the basic Corsair pilot be Trained? Because the wraith stat block lists the pilot as Ace, which I don't think is quite right.

The d20 Future stat blocks for starships are really bizarre in that they include crew. I did the same because I essentially took the statblock from the Fighter and modified it to its current state. I think using an ace is acceptable, but modifying the pilot of a starship is fine in my book. I'm more concerned with the actually ship stats.

Edit: And I can't pinpoint a page (only have the SRD), but I believe base speed is 3,000 ft (6 squares)
 
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snarfoogle

First Post
Ok, here's my rough draft of the Corsair. I think it's too similar to the standard Assault Fighter in the d20 Future book, but it's pretty decent. I used an ace pilot.

Corsair
Type: Ultralight
Subtype: Fighter
Defense: 19
Flat-footed Defense: 13
Autopilot Defense: 10
Hardness: 30
Hit Dice: 9d20 (180 HP)
Initiative Modifier: +6
Pilot’s Class Bonus: +7
Pilot’s Dex Modifier: +6
Gunner’s Attack Bonus: +8/+3
Size: Gargantuan
Tactical Speed: 4,000 feet (8 squares)
Length: 32 feet
Weight: 36,000 lb.
Targeting System Bonus: +4
Crew: 1 (ace +12)
Passenger Capacity: 1
Cargo Capacity: 17,000 lb.
Grapple Modifier: --
Base Purchase DC: 48? I have no idea on how to do this.
Restriction: Mil +3

Attack: 2 fire linked neutron flare-cannons* +8/+3 ranged (9d8/40)
Attack of Opportunity: None

Engines: Induction Engine
Armor: Cerametal
Defense Systems: Improved Damage Control, Improved Autopilot
Sensors: Class IV sensor array, improved targeting system
Communications: Psionic Mass Transceiver
Weapons: 2 fire linked neutron flare-cannons* (range incr. 5000 feet) (9d8 damage), Disruption Web
Grappling Systems: None

Disruption Web: When a Protoss flies a Corsair, he can use psionic amplifiers to create a field of chafflike disruption. This field covers one 500 foot square and affects all starships in that square. Sensor scans made by any starship in the square take a –10 penalty, and attacks made by a ship in the web have a 30% miss chance. Using this ability requires the use of 2 power points. (so the average Protoss can use this ability 1/day). The web lasts 1d4+1 rounds, and it can be targeted at any square within 5000 feet (10 squares).

*Neutron Flare-Cannon is a PL7 version of the neutron gun that is smaller and can be fitted to Gargantuan ships rather than Colossal ones, but is otherwise identical to the PL6 neutron gun.

NEXT UP: I dunno. Maybe a Probe -- I have an idea of making Probes able to be used as damage control droids.
 

lonesoldier said:
We need some sort of system. Like +5 Purchase DC for an extra die of damage, or something. As for now, compare it to the closest allready statted gun and make the price in that range.

I have to disagree with such a system.

First off, who really bothers to calculate Wealth for NPCs? If they're mercs or Dominion soldiers (or something along those lines), they wouldn't buy those weapons. Their commanders would.

The organization's Wealth would make a difference when planning plots ("What, they have nukes! Better do something about that and fast!") but not when it comes to balancing NPCs.

Second, this isn't DnD. Purchase DCs being used to balance extra damage and gadgets is one of the big complaints about D20 Future.
 

Arkhandus

First Post
Your Corsair needs some serious modifications, I think..... Stock Corsairs are pretty much the fastest unit in Starcraft, and their rate of fire is as rapid as a Zergling's frenzied mauling (well, until the Zerglings get their attack-speed upgrade...). I'd double the Corsair's rate of fire from your version, and make sure its flight speed and maneuverability are just about top-notch (they do need a moment to execute tight turns, but they are more or less the most agile Starcraft flyer). Also, keep in mind that a Corsair's neutron flare attack is an explosive splash-damage effect, so when it impacts a target it flares outward in a flash, damaging adjacent units (in Starcraft; in D20 that'd be probably more like a 20 to 40 ft. radius blast, at least; time and distance are compacted in Starcraft to meet the needs of an RTS game). The Corsair's attack power is roughly the minimum for any aerial unit (5 damage in Starcraft, slightly less than a Terran Marine's burst-fire gauss rifle), what makes it deadly is the rapid rate of fire and the burst of energy from the impacts, allowing Corsairs to strafe many enemies and cause wide damage through a formation.
 

Arkhandus

First Post
snarfoogle said:
Arkhandus Zergling
Pros: Good stats all around, nice in combat for a CR 2
Cons: CR2, magical beast creature type, size Medium. Constitution is a little low.
Arscott Zergling
Pros: CR1, Abberation creature type, size Small
Cons: Int -- I don't think it would be mindless. The swarm is at least as smart as an animal with a cerebrate. It would probably decrease to mindless for rogue zerg. Dexterity looks low for crack addicted little dogs of death.

That last line I am seriously considering adding to my sig, I love it. {:^D

Anyway, the reason I put mine at CR 2 is that they're weaker than Marines but not really half as potent; two Zerglings can probably tear up a marine with one Zergling left standing but wounded. Typical Marines will be something like 3rd or 4th-level, such as a Strong 3/Soldier 1. I figure the Zergling's combination of two claws and a bite do a fair representation of their rapid attack rate, but they're still so fragile that a Marine could blow one to bits with a burst or two his gauss rifle; the Zergling's just likely to savage him moderately before it splatters. A Zergling at a full run could reach a Marine in time for the Marine to get off 0-3 shots beforehand (depending on how far they were when spotted), but at most the Marine would only get off 1 shot without serious range penalties on the attack roll, so would only be likely to hit once before the Zergling charged him and got in at least one good bite. If the Zergling were burrowed beforehand and got the jump on the Marine, it'd savage him pretty well in the 1-2 rounds of full-attack actions before the Marine's gauss rifle could make a smoking crater out of the Zergling. The low Constitution is because I didn't want them to be so tough that they could almost rival an armored Marine in toughness, or shrug off 2-3 grazing hits from a clumsy Marine; those gauss rifles pack a serious punch, even on grazing hits.

So I figured CR 2 for a single Zergling would be close enough in comparison to a common Marine; they're just tough enough to be a threat and survive 1 grazing hit (but not a well-rolled hit for nearly max damage). And unarmed civilians are going to drop before a Zergling like flies, but could still gun it down or beat it dead with a crowbar if they're brave enough (and lucky enough to evade 1-3 rounds of Zergling blitzkrieg). I've read the Starcraft novels, and wish they'd make more of them..... Besides, Zerglings aren't the weakest of units; that honor goes to Broodlings and Larvae. So Zerglings shouldn't be CR1 pushovers.

Sizes: watch the Starcraft cinema where some guy in a car hits a zergling. It appears to be Small size.

Type: The Magical Beast might fit crunchwise, but I think Abberation makes more sense for flavor reasons.

As for size, I based it off a picture in the Starcraft manual, that shows a Marine trying to fire at a Zergling that just leapt out at him, hardly a foot from his face, and they look to be of nearly equal size. With the Marine in his power-armor suit, that makes him actually a bit taller and bulkier than normal, so Zerglings are definitely Medium-sized, even if a tad on the lower end of that (5 feet in body-length perhaps). Aberration gives Zerg an annoyingly high Will save, and annoyingly low Fortitude/Reflex saves, for a monster that supposed to be very genetically advanced, adaptable, predatory, and successful in absorbing numerous bigger species into the Swarm. Zergs are mostly uncontrolled and simple-minded without a Cerebrate or Overlord babysitting them actively. They act on instinct most of the time and have a simple, strict hierarchy that has no need nor encouragement for individual cleverness, ambition, skill, or what-have-you. Total subservience to any local Overlord or Cerebrate. No reason to have developed any significant strength of will. So once again I wish they'd have left out the "Magical" part in Magical Beast for d20 Modern/Future, so it wouldn't make peopel squeamish about using it for alien beasts....... Also, Aberrations don't have such good attack bonuses and such as Magical Beasts, and they have more emphasis on skill points and proficiencies, whereas Magical Beasts are assumed to generally be more physical and, well, beast-like in body and mindset.

Personally, if I was making a Zergling, it would look like this:

STR 12, DEX 17, CON 10, INT 1 (-- w/o cerebrate), WIS 6, CHA 4
Hit Dice: 2d8+0 (9), Size: Small
Attacks: Claw +2 melee (1d4+1) or bite +2 melee (1d6+0)
(You only get 1/2 strength for secondary natural weapons, right?)
Fast healing 1, etc.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward for the vehicles. I might try my hand at making a Corsair or Scout... I really want to play a Protoss Dogfighter.

Seems decent enough, but as above, the pictures I've seen make Zerglings appear Medium-sized, and predatory animals should have Intelligence of 2 (as noted, I think, in D20 Modern or at least the 3E D&D Monster Manual...Int 1 is mostly for herbivores who don't need cunning, whereas predators need some cunning to track down, ambush, and overcome herds of prey; Zerglings are like pack predators anyhow, like velociraptors).
And yeah, secondary natural attacks (when used in a full-attack action) apply only half the Strength modifier, rounded down, to damage, but they also suffer a -5 attack roll penalty. Primary natural attacks suffer no penalty. When using a secondary natural weapon for a single attack (rather than part of a full-attack), they deal full Strength modifier to damage and don't suffer the -5 attack roll penalty.
 

Arkhandus

First Post
Also, consider that Aberration is for mutants and other unnatural stuff. Zerg are extremely natural, just with minor genetic tweaks, but not really moreso than the Protoss received from the Xel'Naga. Zerg developed from a parasite that took control of its host after attaching to the spine, and that's how they developed (with a bit of Xel'Naga coaxing) into assimilating the host creatures and everything. They aren't unnatural fusions of different species from wierd science or magical experimentation, they're natural parasites that developed to the point of assimilating their hosts more fully. Magical Beasts are not necessarily magical, they also include non-animal creatures with strange abilities or humanoid intellect. The Zerg psionic hivemind qualifies, certainly.
 

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