Starmantle Cloak versus Evasion & what does the does the word 'normally' mean?

[DM-Rocco]

What does the word 'normally' mean in the evasion description?

Evasion says that you can take less damage if the attack would normally allow a reflex saving throw for half damage. Enter the Star Mantle Cloak from the Book of Exhaulted Deeds, which makes you immune to non magical weapons and allows a DC 15 reflex save to take half damage from magical weapons.

So, can you use evasion, or improved evasion, to take no damage?

 

[Thanee]

normally = w/o Evasion.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

That would technically work, but noone in his right mind would allow it.

At 2nd level and higher, a rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility.

It obviously violates the spirit of Evasion.

If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage.

Well, and you could - of course - interprete this easily to not allow the cheesy Star Mantle Cloak approach.

Because the "half damage save" is not part of the attack.

Bye
Thanee

 

[DM-Rocco]

Well, I don't allow it in my games that I DM, I am not stupid, however, I am sly, I had it on one of my characters that I played where the DM did allow it .


Of course, he nerfed it, but not because I never took damage from attacks, no, he had a problem with it because I was playing an evil character and had bought an itme from the Book of Exhaulted Deeds, . Crazy DM.

Anyway, I just wanted other peoples in put on the subject, whether they would allow it or not, and why?

 

[Ourph]

Enter the Star Mantle Cloak from the Book of Exhaulted Deeds, which makes you immune to non magical weapons and allows a DC 15 reflex save to take half damage from magical weapons.

I think the problem is with the Star Mantle Cloak. I've not read the actual description, but if you are describing the abilities accurately, I disagree with the "makes you immune to non-magical weapons". If I were to use such an item IMC it would grant damage reduction X/magic instead of complete immunity. Then you could simply use the DC 15 Reflex save to allow the character to apply the damage reduction vs. magic weapons as well on a successful save. This bypasses the whole Evasion question because you're no longer "saving for half" which is a prerequisite to use Evasion, but still leaves the cloak as a fairly powerful item (depending on how high the DR you set is).

However, if you use the RAW with the item, I would say the Evasion/Cloak synergy is valid, since the item specifically says "save for half".

 

[reanjr]

What does the word 'normally' mean in the evasion description?

Evasion says that you can take less damage if the attack would normally allow a reflex saving throw for half damage. Enter the Star Mantle Cloak from the Book of Exhaulted Deeds, which makes you immune to non magical weapons and allows a DC 15 reflex save to take half damage from magical weapons.

So, can you use evasion, or improved evasion, to take no damage?

Since you normally (without the Cloak) do not receive a save for being attacked with magical weapons, you can not use evasion.

 

[DM-Rocco]

I knew some one would ask for the whole description, so here it is.


Starmantle Cloak: This draping black cloakturns into a sparkling mantle of tiny, cascading stars when worn. The cloak sheds light as a torch, renders the cloak impervious to non-magical weapon attacks, and transforms any non-magical weapon or missle that strikes him into harmless light, destroying it. Contact with the cloak does not destroy magical weapons or missles, but the wearer of the starmantle cloak is entitled to a DC 15 Reflex saving throw each time he is struck by such a weapon; success indicates that the wearer only takes half damage from the attack.

 

[Patlin]

I asked customer service about evasion and starmantle when they first came out, and the response I got indicated that it won't work. Furthermore, there was a general statement that evasion never works when a special ability creates a reflex save for half that wouldn't otherwise be available.

Seemed like a good answer to me.

 

[The Souljourner]

It's not an attack that allows a reflex save for half... it's an item that grants you a reflex save to avoid half of the damage from an attack. There's a slight but important difference there.

You only get to use evasion when the *attack* allows a reflex save for half.

If someone had a club that did 2d10 damage but allowed a reflex save for half, then yes, you could evade all of it, but it's not the same thing as what the cloak does.

-The Souljourner

 

[Pax]

In the Exodus, we took one look at the Evasion + Starmantle combination ... and laughed. Hard.

Then we ruled that the order-of-events checked Evasion before Starmantle could come into play, and so ... rogue(20) or commoner(20), even with a roll of natural 20 to save for half damage from a melee attack with a magical weapon ... both would take that half damage.

Anyway, it's basically the same thinking, at it's heart, as Souljourner's post describes, above.