D&D 5E (2014) Starting level

[Reynard]

Cool thanks. I figured it was somewhere just baked in rather than explicitly stated.

DMG page 84 and PHB page 15, for reference.

 

[R_J_K75]

DMG page 84 and PHB page 15, for reference.

Ill read it again. Mustve overlooked it or completely missed it, tends to happen to me when rules are implied rather than direct.

 

[Fanaelialae]

After playing with a group that had done two campaigns starting low, they wanted to start at 9th for the next one, being tired of low level play. We got a bunch of characters that hadn't grown together, with choices made in isolation (even though we were talking), and characters that were too complex for the more rules-casual players to deal with.

Last night we started a new side campaign. At 1st.

Personally, I start at 1st but do rapid advancement until 3rd, and then still somewhat quickened until 5th. Using story/milestone type of advancement.

I've "started" a campaign around 9th and had it work out, but I'd be inclined to say that my case is the exception rather than the rule.

In that case the first party had started at level 3, and had adventures up to whatever level they retired at (it was somewhere around 9th, but it's been a few years so I don't recall exactly). On their final adventure, the druid PC acquired his own grove. Although I had placed an older druid there so that it would not go unprotected while he went adventuring, the player felt that his character would stay and defend the grove himself. The other PCs decided they would help him, and thus the party retired.

I asked the players if they wanted to continue the campaign, and they did, so I had them make new characters at the same level as their old characters. I then advanced the world by several months, just to mix things up a bit, came up with a scenario for them (they were the remnants of a larger dungeon delve that had gone sideways). Part 2 of the campaign went great, and we ended it at level 19.

That said, I think that part of what made it work was that the players were intimately familiar with the campaign by that point, having played their way up. Additionally, they were all experienced with bringing in high level replacement characters (they've been playing many years, and I don't force new characters to start at level 1).

 

[MNblockhead]

I want to start at 5th level. No 10th level. No 20th level.

One shots are your friend.

 

[Weiley31]

If you create an adventure setting that actually has things worth exploring and doing in it, you don't need a "main adventure" to railroad your players along.

Rogue PC: Wait, we forgot the milk.
Title pops up for the 2nd act of the campaign before the Eberron campaign.

 

[MNblockhead]

Can you talk more about zero level funnel for 5e? Or maybe I am assuming you were playing 5e.

Also, agree with you - no need for them to earn that xp. In fact, I wiuld just say “you gave 900xp, make characters as you like”. Gives them oppty to make multi-class if desired.

Sure, I got the idea when an old friend visited from out of down and ran a Dungeon Crawl Classics adventure. Each player is given four characters, none of which have class level. Just race, profession, and resources based on their profession. The idea is that the a number are likely going to die and of any survivors you select one to be your character going forward. I don't recall the specifics of all the DCC rules, as this was a few years ago.

What I did for my campaign, is that I used the rules from DDAL-ELW00: What's Past Is Prologue:

• The character has chosen a name, race, and background.
• The character has NOT chosen a class.
• The character has gear plus weapons, up to one common magical item, and proficiencies granted by their race and background.
• A level 0 character has 6 + their Constitution modifier for hit points, 1d6 hit dice, and no proficiency bonus. Weapon and armor proficiencies may be granted by race and background; those are fine!
• Upon hitting first level, the character will gain hit points to meet their chosen classes "hit points at first level." E.g., if the character chooses to become a fighter s/he will gain +4 hit points.
• Each player will roll-up four characters at session zero. We will roll up characters together. If you can't make the first session, you will just roll up a 1st level character and bring it to the next session.

I love this zero-level character-funnel mechanic. But for players who have a strong vision for their character, it may not be for them. But such players would also not like my current campaign which has an Obituaries list proudly displayed behind my DMs chair.

The players did pretty well on their first session and all had at least two characters survive. The other characters are basically kept "on the bench." Players can swap characters for different missions and to level them up, but most have settled on a favorite. Another rule in my campaign is that if a character dies, or if a new person joins, the new character is brought in at two levels lower than the lowest member of the party. Derived from that rule we also have any characters on the bench level up so that the lowest level character is no more than two levels below the next level.

Having multiple characters not only saves time if a character dies, but also allows more flexibility with downtime activities. In addition to downtime-activity found in the PHB, DMG, and Xanathar's, we also use Matt Coleville's Strongholds and Followers. I also use a homebrewed faction/reputation system heavily influenced by ENWorld En5ider #256: Reputation Rules: Organization Dice. Downtime is kind of a mini game played by post between sessions or at the end of a session if we come to good point for the game to end but still have some time left in our session.

Note that I'm not running a typical adventure path or story-driven adventure. I'm running Rappan Athuk, a massive old-school inspired mega-dungeon.

 

[MNblockhead]

Level 3. The point of a sandbox is to go exploring and see what happens. That isn't nearly as fun when a random crit can drop you.

Depends on the group. Sometime when you go exploring to see what happens, what happens is somebody dies. As long as you make it easy for the player to get back in the game with a new character that can be a lot of fun.

 

[MNblockhead]

I'm fine with random death. I just don't think 1st level is the best place to do it.

Fundamentally, I'm against any sort of penalty that encourages careful, cautious play; I want my PCs to dive into dangerous situations so I can freely challenge them. But I'm aware that cautious play is a play aesthetic that a lot of people like to encourage.

But you don't need to be cautious. I think modern versions of the game and all the heavily story driven game streams have created a sensibility where players expect PC death to be rare and meaningful. But easy death at low levels can make you feel much more invested in the characters who do make it to Tier 2 and if those characters die, it is just as, if not more, impactful.

There is no right way to play. Different players and groups enjoy different styles. But if the group goes in expecting that their will be character death and you have backup characters ready to swap in, you don't have to play cautious. The first level fighter who dies so the rest of the party can escape or the overconfident rogue who dies at his first trap can be a memorable as anything else in the campaign.

 

[TwoSix]

But you don't need to be cautious. I think modern versions of the game and all the heavily story driven game streams have created a sensibility where players expect PC death to be rare and meaningful. But easy death at low levels can make you feel much more invested in the characters who do make it to Tier 2 and if those characters die, it is just as, if not more, impactful.

There is no right way to play. Different players and groups enjoy different styles. But if the group goes in expecting that their will be character death and you have backup characters ready to swap in, you don't have to play cautious. The first level fighter who dies so the rest of the party can escape or the overconfident rogue who dies at his first trap can be a memorable as anything else in the campaign.

With the understanding that every group's preferred play aesthetic is different, that simply isn't a play style I want to foster. I have no problem with PC death (I generally have 2-3 per campaign), but I find them inconvenient. I've never found "funnel-style" PC generation where the one that actually makes it past level 3 is the one you keep that interesting.

My preference for higher starting levels isn't because I don't want character death, I simply find the probability of death occurring to be higher than I want. Plus, I really feel like I have to be more careful with how I stage encounters, which I also find annoying. I don't run modules primarily because I like to make my own encounters, and I prefer the PCs to have deeper reserves for the occasions where my encounter design is .... overzealous.

I'm not trying to convince you to switch a method that works for you, but I feel my preferences have equal validity.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

Sure, I got the idea when an old friend visited from out of down and ran a Dungeon Crawl Classics adventure. Each player is given four characters, none of which have class level. Just race, profession, and resources based on their profession. The idea is that the a number are likely going to die and of any survivors you select one to be your character going forward. I don't recall the specifics of all the DCC rules, as this was a few years ago.

What I did for my campaign, is that I used the rules from DDAL-ELW00: What's Past Is Prologue:

• The character has chosen a name, race, and background.
• The character has NOT chosen a class.
• The character has gear plus weapons, up to one common magical item, and proficiencies granted by their race and background.
• A level 0 character has 6 + their Constitution modifier for hit points, 1d6 hit dice, and no proficiency bonus. Weapon and armor proficiencies may be granted by race and background; those are fine!
• Upon hitting first level, the character will gain hit points to meet their chosen classes "hit points at first level." E.g., if the character chooses to become a fighter s/he will gain +4 hit points.
• Each player will roll-up four characters at session zero. We will roll up characters together. If you can't make the first session, you will just roll up a 1st level character and bring it to the next session.

I love this zero-level character-funnel mechanic. But for players who have a strong vision for their character, it may not be for them. But such players would also not like my current campaign which has an Obituaries list proudly displayed behind my DMs chair.

Love this. These guys are significantly more accomplished than a DCC funnel character. I mean, a common magical item? What? And a weapon? Practically Monty Haul here...

I wonder if there's a generator for 5e funnel characters out there...

I'm running Rappan Athuk, a massive old-school inspired mega-dungeon.

Love that mega-D. I backed the KS, but haven't had a group that wanted to do a full on dungeon crawl.