stat block for spells

[The Spectrum Rider]

Something of a technical question: suppose you've designed a spell that causes the caster to glow with a intensely bright light. Anyone within 30 ft. who sees the caster must make a Reflex save (vs. the spell's save DC) or be blinded for 1d4 rounds. The spell lasts 1 round/level.

When you write the spell up, what goes under "target" in the stat block? "You" or "all creatures within 30 ft."?

What is listed under "Saving Throw"? "None" (the caster gets no saving through against his own spell) or "Reflex negates"? Or "None (see text)"?

What's the area of effect? What's the effect?

I'm pretty sure I knowwhat the duration is.

Thanks for your help.

The Spectrum Rider

 

[Alzrius]

Something of a technical question: suppose you've designed a spell that causes the caster to glow with a intensely bright light. Anyone within 30 ft. who sees the caster must make a Reflex save (vs. the spell's save DC) or be blinded for 1d4 rounds. The spell lasts 1 round/level.

In my opinion, the important thing here is the effect the spell has, since that's what the mechanical aspect of it is based on. The fact that it happens to be the caster who glows seems irrelevant. Just ask yourself, if what glowed was just a ball in mid-air, would the spell be mechanically different at all? It seems not.

When you write the spell up, what goes under "target" in the stat block? "You" or "all creatures within 30 ft."?

I would say "You" here, since you must be the point of origin for the spell. The fact that it affects all creatures would be listed below.

What is listed under "Saving Throw"? "None" (the caster gets no saving through against his own spell) or "Reflex negates"? Or "None (see text)"?

Reflex negates.

What's the area of effect? What's the effect?

The area of effect is all creatures within 30 ft. The effect would be what you first described...that the creatures who are in that 30 ft. radius must make Reflex saves or be blinded.

 

[kreynolds]

Something of a technical question: suppose you've designed a spell that causes the caster to glow with a intensely bright light. Anyone within 30 ft. who sees the caster must make a Reflex save (vs. the spell's save DC) or be blinded for 1d4 rounds. The spell lasts 1 round/level.

Well, right off the bat I'd say that a Fort save would be more appropriate than a Reflex save. Reflex saves are great for instantaneous effects, like fireball, where the effect is just a quick "bang" and then its gone, but this spell doesn't do that.

When you write the spell up, what goes under "target" in the stat block? "You" or "all creatures within 30 ft."?

I don't think a target descriptor is appropriate here. Just set the range to Range: Personal and give it an Area: 30 ft. emanation centered on you.

What is listed under "Saving Throw"? "None" (the caster gets no saving through against his own spell) or "Reflex negates"? Or "None (see text)"?

Given my first answer, I'd say Fortitude negates. The saving throw descriptor here doesn't have anything to do with the caster, just those affected by the spell.

What's the area of effect?

As above, I suggest an emanation.

What's the effect?

You don't need an effect descriptor for this spell. All the other portions of the statblock, and the description of the spell, define it well enough, IMO.

 

[KarinsDad]

Well, right off the bat I'd say that a Fort save would be more appropriate than a Reflex save. Reflex saves are great for instantaneous effects, like fireball, where the effect is just a quick "bang" and then its gone, but this spell doesn't do that.

I disagree somewhat with this.

When the spell is first cast, it is basically instantaneous in that the targets in the area of effect are taken unawares.

I think the Reflex save is good, but there has to be some additional elements here. I do not think how healthy you are (i.e. Fort save) should reflect resistance to blindness. Rather, it should be an ability to look away or briefly at targets when necessary (more Dex-like ability than Con).

To me, the light should be blinding regardless of whether you make the save or not. Hence, something like:

1) A reflex save each round while in the 30 foot radius area of effect or be blinded (no need to make a save if you are already blinded, it can be presumed that you closed your eyes).
2) If you make your reflex save on a given round, you are merely dazzled (for that round).
3) If you close your eyes, you do not need to make a save, but you are effectively blinded anyway for that round.
4) The caster is immune to this spell with regard to blinding or dazzling (but he still can use the spell for light purposes).
5) If you are within 60 feet of the spell caster, but outside the normal area of effect, you must make a Reflex save each round or be dazzled (if you make the save, nothing happens).
6) I would add Spell Resistance: No to this since spell immunity should not prevent the bright light from affecting you. The spell is on the caster, not really on the area. The light merely shines into that area.
7) I would pick a Darkness-type spell which negates this (presumably Darkness itself).

The concept of making any type of save in an extremely brightly lit area and still operating 100% normally is nonsensical to me. So is the concept of being blinded within 30 feet, but at 31 feet, there is no effect.

 

[The Souljourner]

You can't have the target be "You" and then give it a save... the save applies to the target. As KR stated, it should be range: Personal, with a 30 emanation as the area. Saving Throw: Fort makes a lot more sense than Reflex. Reflex is for dodging out of the way, Fort is for just toughing it out.

As KD pointed out, if you manage to make the reflex save to close your eyes, you're effectively blind anyway, so what's the point? Make it Fort, so tough guys can just squint through it.

Save line should be Fort (see text).

Also, try not to make it too complex. I think that's one of the major problems with most player made spells... they want to make it really realistic with tons of "if this then that" stuff... but it makes it a pain to actually use in combat. I think blinded in a 30' radius for 1d4 rounds if a fort save isn't made, and dazzled if one is, is a good way to do it.

-The Souljourner

 

[KarinsDad]

As KD pointed out, if you manage to make the reflex save to close your eyes, you're effectively blind anyway, so what's the point? Make it Fort, so tough guys can just squint through it.

I would think that the entire intent of this spell is defensive and to PREVENT tough guys from "just squinting through it". Preventing arcane spell casters (which a Fort save mostly does) from targeting you at close range is kind of worthless for the most part unless you are in a small room (which drastically limits the utility of the spell) since they could still just back away and cast spells at you.

Why bother with creating the spell in the first place if it does not seriously affect most melee combatant types?

I do not mind characters squinting through it and merely being dazzled (it just means making a Reflex save every round to attempt that) but, I do not think that tough guys should be easily able to do that. A Reflex save slows down everyone but monks, bards and rogues, a Fort save slows down bards, rogues and arcane spell casters. As a spell caster creating a localized protection spell given a choice as to who should be resistant, I would prefer rogues, sorcerers, wizards, and bards (4 not very combative classes with the exception of rogues sneak attack) as opposed to fighters, barbarians, paladins, rangers, clerics and druids (6 fairly combative classes).

Also, try not to make it too complex. I think that's one of the major problems with most player made spells... they want to make it really realistic with tons of "if this then that" stuff... but it makes it a pain to actually use in combat. I think blinded in a 30' radius for 1d4 rounds if a fort save isn't made, and dazzled if one is, is a good way to do it.

I view certain types of spells as requiring good definition.

To me, this spell is a prime example and extremely similar to Stinking Cloud in nature. There is a sense debilitating effect in an area. If you stay in that area, the effect will probably affect your senses. If you get out of the area, your senses will quickly recover, but not immediately.

 

[The Souljourner]

If you want it to be a reflex save, make it something that makes sense as a reflex save. It could make sense as a reflex save for the initial burst, but after that, you're either squinting or not.... it's not like your eyes pop open at the end of every round and you need to see how quickly you can re-squint each time

So, the only things that make sense to me is either there's one reflex save for the initial casting that applies for the entire duration (people caught unawares are blinded, but after that, it's obvious you need to squint, so everyone in the area who isn't blinded is dazzled), or you have a fort save every round (success = dazzled, failure = blinded).

To me, it seems obvious that this kind of effect would be a fort save. You're not dodging out of the way of anything, it's a physical harm that you're trying to resist. If the intention is to make a spell that hampers low reflex save guys, then it should have a different effect.

-The Souljourner

 

[KarinsDad]

If you want it to be a reflex save, make it something that makes sense as a reflex save. It could make sense as a reflex save for the initial burst, but after that, you're either squinting or not.... it's not like your eyes pop open at the end of every round and you need to see how quickly you can re-squint each time

Reflex saves do not need to mean that you are dodging an attack every round. It could be the ability to fight effectively while still mostly covering your eyes with a shield, your arm, a cloak, whatever. It could be the ability to look at your opponents feet and intuit his moves as opposed to looking up.

So, the only things that make sense to me is either there's one reflex save for the initial casting that applies for the entire duration (people caught unawares are blinded, but after that, it's obvious you need to squint, so everyone in the area who isn't blinded is dazzled), or you have a fort save every round (success = dazzled, failure = blinded).

Actually, your first one here is a reasonable interpretation.

To me, it seems obvious that this kind of effect would be a fort save. You're not dodging out of the way of anything, it's a physical harm that you're trying to resist. If the intention is to make a spell that hampers low reflex save guys, then it should have a different effect.

Not necessarily. Have you ever had an eye doctor dilate your eyes?

They tell you that you are not supposed to drive when that happens. But, you can drive, you just have to be extremely cautious. You glance up into the bright light every few seconds, evaluate the situation, and then glance away at less brightly lit areas.

This is more of a mode of operating as opposed to a resistance to the light.

If you have a good stamina and are in good shape, I can understand being resistant to disease or poison or even physical pain. I cannot understand being resistant to bright light (or loud sounds or any other sense stimulus).

In fact, a Will save makes more sense than a Fort save. The ability to mentally overcome your bodies natural reaction to avoid looking at the bright light, regardless of the pain and discomfort.

Sound Burst, btw, uses a Will save. Maybe that is a better solution (although I like the Reflex save round one, dazzled after that solution best, but changing that to Will save round one would be fine).

 

[The Spectrum Rider]

Thank you one and all.

To be honest, the spell I described was not the "production-quality" spell I'm working on. It was just an example used to help me ask about what the spell stat block should look like. So, while I understand the issue of whether it's best to use a Ref save or a Fort save, that's not actually an issue for me.

I appreciate all the feedback I've gotten.

The Spectrum Rider