Stat Block Problems w/ Hordes of the Abyss

[Garnfellow]

I've just discovered Paizo nicely includes updated writer's guidelines for Dungeon magazine, finally. . . . Still not sure which line to stick a remorhaz' heat special ability, though. Seems a little more than an SQ but not quite a Special Action.

Thanks for the link -- I hadn't seen that. It's been interesting to watch evolution in action with the new stat block, as vestigal limbs drop off and new features emerge. Almost all of these changes seem to make the thing better and more usable in play. And you can start to see some divergence between Paizo and WotC, and for the most part I prefer Paizo's changes.

The placement of special abilities will probably never be crystal clear, but it does really seem to be in flux right now. I seem to find new and better ways every day. For example, shouldn't "trap sense +XX" really be put on the Senses line? Etc.

 

[John Cooper]

I finished reading through Hordes of the Abyss last night. I hope to have my review of it up this weekend.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I don't think a_game_ should be complicated.

I don't know about anyone else, but I just want to have fun and role-play. Game mechanics should facilitate ease-of-use. They should be in the background, speeding up moderation rather than slowing it down. I know many of you out there are Gurus. You know the rules backwards and forwards, but, while I know enough to make my games run smooth I certainly don't know every single rule in the D20 system.

I think True20 has done a great job of stream-lining the d20 system, making it more Role-play friendly, and not RULE-play intensive.

We've moved from a 10-minute character creation pencil and paper role-playing game to a 60-minute character creation computer and printer roll-playing game.

 

[buzz]

I'm no mod, but it would be great if we could avoid derailing this thread into role/roll, crunch/lite, "D&D sucks" territory. Pretty please?

 

[Deuce Traveler]

DnD doesn't suck. it's just a different game depending on your tastes at the time.

 

[buzz]

DnD doesn't suck. it's just a different game depending on your tastes at the time.

Right. I wasn't trying to imply that was your or Urizen's argument. Just sayin', it's veering into that sort of territory. Again, just a polite request.

Like I said above, I don't think complexity/simplicity is the issue. Thousands, if not tens or hundreds of thousands, of players and DMs all over the globe get their stat blocks correct. HERO, a far more math-intensive system than D&D, gets its stat block correct. (And plenty of far simpler systems get theirs wrong.)

I really think this is a staffing (editorial) and tool issue.

 

[satori01]

James, thanks for responding in this thread. While I am sure you are not over at WOTC everyday, what is the culture like over there?
I know that is a loaded question to answer, but I feel like WOTC is an Ivory Tower of Isolation right now.

As you rightfull pointed out, Dungeon has used the new stat block for awhile now, including listing how many points are being devoted to Power Attack. It just seems obvious to list how much is being used, especially with creatures (like Demons) that often have High BABs but low base damage.

I'm sure WOTC will eventually work the kinks out of how they want the new monster format to appear, it just seems like bad buisness to charge people for products while in essense testing the material, especially when just asking your customers and listening would garner a huge amount of feedback.

I got past the Demonlord section, so I am looking forward to diving into the rest of the book. Me likey Dagon and Malcanthet.
The idea of the Obyrith is genius. I hate to say it but I have been spoiled by the Demonomicon articles in Dragon. To go from 3-4 pages of text on a Demonlord to a page, is kinda like going from a luxury car to a yugo. Hordes of the Abyss came a day after Dragon, and it was funny to hear my wife say "thats not Kostchthie (points at Hordes of the Abysss), that Kostchthie (points at Dragon magazine).

As an aside I hope Dragon does Demonomicon type articles on the
ArchDevils!

 

[ThirdWizard]

If the stat blocks are getting *worse* through editing...um...wow.

I had a great statblock completely mangled in a lil' production I was with. I mean, they even changed concealment to cover! (yeah, that fog gives good cover) Attack changed, skills changed, weapons changed, it was a total and compete mess.

So, I for one, am not surprised by that in the least.

This is a bit disconcerting, though, seeing as how I've been looking forward to getting this book. I'm still going to get it, but now I'm kinda sad. I guess this puts MMIV right out as a purchase, which is also kinda sad since it will be the first MM I'll be missing out on in a very very long time.

 

[glass]

roll-playing game.

Ugh, I hate that expression.

Seriously, it ceased to funny or clever about 20 years ago (if it ever was). If I didn't hate censorship as much, I'd be calling for it to be a banning offense.


glass.

 

[buzz]

Ugh, I hate that expression.
...
If I didn't hate censorship as much, I'd be calling for it to be a banning offense.

I'd sign that petition.