Stat Block Problems w/ Hordes of the Abyss

[Flexor the Mighty!]

see my sig.

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

Well, so much for buying MMIV.

I'll flip through it, but I won't be buying any more Monster books with that stack block (As I've bought almost every Monster Book I can find, that's bad).

I guess they decided if they can't fix it, they'll just hide it.

That's what the new stat block is. Blatent Obfuscation.

Think about it.

By only listed X HD (XXX hp), what they are saying is:

If I don't show you how I came up with this number, you have no idea whether it is right or not. Imagine an Editor looking at a Medium Construct with a listing of 4 HD (42 hp) is going to realize how screwed up it is? (It seems correct doesn't it; 5d10 +20 size).

Nope, later on the monster has a Con score of 20.

By not listing the Power Attack bonus, which is variable, it would take forever to find out if the Attack Bonus was right, or if it was wrong, where was the error? Power Attack in excess of HD? Failure to add x1.5 due to 2 handed weapon? Wrong Size Modifier to Attack?

This new block is not making life any easier for the Editors to catch mistakes. But it is making it a hcek of a lot harder to see where the actual mistakes are (still there, just with a +5 bonus to Hide).

I like to re-work monsters as key bad guys from time to time. Or tweak monsters on the fly, which the new block makes darn near impossible. And making a key foe will now take twice as long to figure out.

I will give that the general layout of the Stat block MIGHT make it easier to run encounters, except they are leaving out way to many crucial details.

If I buy Hordes of the Abyss, I'm gonna have to spend hours with a pencil "updating" before I'd even consider using a single monster in my game. Then, I don't by that sort of book soley as a "Monster Book". So, I'll read through it (completely) and then decide rather to buy it.

Which is one heck of a downgrade from "Buy it. But it now!"

And MMIV has gone from a "Must Have" to a "90% No-No"

If they stick with this new stat block, I'm fine with that (it might improve things). If they refuse to 'fill out' the stat lines (HD type, bonus HP's, etc), they have lost a loyal customer of over a decade.

Or,

Silly Wizards, hiding the errors under a sheet doesn't get rid of them.

 

[buzz]

That's what the new stat block is. Blatent Obfuscation.

The new stat block is great. It's a vast improvement, IMO, over the previous, unreadable, unusable "paragraph crapshoot" style. I've used both in play, and the new format is 2,399.41 times easier to manage in-game, for me.

The issue is simply editing.

 

[JoeGKushner]

The new stat block is great. It's a vast improvement, IMO, over the previous, unreadable, unusable "paragraph crapshoot" style. I've used both in play, and the new format is 2,399.41 times easier to manage in-game, for me.

The issue is simply editing.

Well, it's not necessarily simply editing as there are numbers missing. Editing won't account for that.

 

[Garnfellow]

If I buy Hordes of the Abyss, I'm gonna have to spend hours with a pencil "updating" before I'd even consider using a single monster in my game. Then, I don't by that sort of book soley as a "Monster Book". So, I'll read through it (completely) and then decide rather to buy it.

Buy Hordes of the Abyss. Seriously. I hate stat block errors as much as anyone, and a lot more than most, and I am royally ticked off that Wizards still can't get this right. I sure as heck am not going to buy MMIV based on this rotten track record.

These stat block problems are a great, crying shame, but nothing that should dissuade you from buying Hordes of the Abyss. Everything else is that good. Even after just a few quick skims, this is easily the best book I've seen from WotC in years, and maybe ever. The pages are just jam-packed with incredibly cool ideas. Everywhere your eye wanders, there is something wretchedly wonderful. (Or is it wonderfully wretched?)

Part of me hates to say this, because I really don't want to encourage WotC to continue with this slack attitude. But then again, they will probably never have a book that so perfectly pairs such talented authors with such a fecund subject -- in other words, this is one of the few times ever when the content is so good that stat block problems can be . . . well, if not forgiven, at least forgotten.

 

[Garnfellow]

Silly Wizards, hiding the errors under a sheet doesn't get rid of them.

I sympathize with much of your post, but I think you're way off base here. I've seen a lot of theories about why Wizards adopted the new format: to make us buy new books, to change for change's sake, and now to obscure the math.

But I think that, clearly, the sole driving reason for the change is to improve usability in play. Pure and simple.

I understand people quibbling over this or that feature of the new stat block, and I suspect that the current format can be made better, but come on -- there's no nefarious motive afoot with this change.

 

[buzz]

Well, it's not necessarily simply editing as there are numbers missing. Editing won't account for that.

But I don't think the format itself precudes the data from being there. James already pointed that out. This is just editing silliness.

 

[JoeGKushner]

But I don't think the format itself precudes the data from being there. James already pointed that out. This is just editing silliness.

Perhaps not the power attack, but what about hit dice type for example?

I'm not confident it matters to be honest. WoTC is still the largest player in the pond and they've continued to prove that they don't have to get it right.

Then again, other companies, despite the groaning going on here, aren't that much better. It's too bad White Wolf doesn't send John their Tome of Horrors books for review. I'd love to see his keen eye there for example.

 

[Sammael]

Perhaps not the power attack, but what about hit dice type for example?

They could always do it like this: hp 33 (6d10 HD)

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

I sympathize with much of your post, but I think you're way off base here. I've seen a lot of theories about why Wizards adopted the new format: to make us buy new books, to change for change's sake, and now to obscure the math.

But I think that, clearly, the sole driving reason for the change is to improve usability in play. Pure and simple.

I was being just a way bit sarcastic, I admit.

But, this new format (as is) just lends itself to producing more errors, not less. Before, the data was there & I could do a quick check in 20-30 seconds (a more detailed check would take 5 minutes or so). By not listing stuff like HD Type, Con Bonus & Misc Modifiers the Editor & Proofreaders pretty much have to take the writer ar face value of completly rebuild every monster from the ground up to see if he got even basic stuff right.

I tried using the New block a few times. Absolute mess. At present, a monster in the new format is a waste of space for me.

The old format actually HAS all the information a need at a glance.

I will concede that the old block does not present the information in the best manner. I learned to almost read it from the Bottom-Up. But the info is there.

The new block does have potential. It is better laid out. I'd actually prefer it. If they bothered to put all the information I need there.

I can learn to deal with poor organization. I can't stand missing data.

Or maybe I just customize monsters more than average. I tend to be an "High End User" when it comes to the 3.5 Game Engine. I just know the new stat block makes it harder for me to use them in a game.

The most frustrating thing is that I CAN see how the new block would make my life easier. It's almost like they were in the middle of developing a new block & then rushed it out before proper Beta-Testing.