Stat Booster Angst


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I think it means if stat boosts are avalable you just give yourself a STR bonus and you hit more and deal more damage. If they aren't you get improved trip, trip the enemy with an AOO abd get abother AOO as they stand up. Thus you hit the enemy more and deal more damage. I think.
 

Simm said:
I think it means if stat boosts are avalable you just give yourself a STR bonus and you hit more and deal more damage. If they aren't you get improved trip, trip the enemy with an AOO abd get abother AOO as they stand up. Thus you hit the enemy more and deal more damage. I think.

If stat boosts are available, you can improve your chance to hit, damage, AND chance to trip people since it's an opposed ability check.
 

I'm with KahunaBurger, especially with mental stats. A belt that makes you stronger, fine, ok, 90% of your day you're not going to miss it. But how do you deal with taking off a circlet that made you smarter, or made you perceive the universe in a way you couldn't otherwise. There's also a recursive aspect that bugs me -- if I'm smart enough to make me smarter, why don't I become smart enough to make me more smarter, as it were?

I also dislike them because their near-universal applicability makes them too desireable, it makes them boring, it places even more emphasis on stats than skills (or skill). I prefer lower magic games, and a gloves of +6 Dex is like a +3 armor, a +3 rapier, a +3 to every Dex skill item, and a +3 Reflex Save item all rolled into one. Because they are so good, they become no-brainers for those games where players feel entitled (or the DM allows) free or easy access to items.
 

Rodrigo Istalindir said:
I'm with KahunaBurger, especially with mental stats. A belt that makes you stronger, fine, ok, 90% of your day you're not going to miss it. But how do you deal with taking off a circlet that made you smarter, or made you perceive the universe in a way you couldn't otherwise.

I tend to agree with both RI and KahunaBurger on this, stat-boosting through items I don't like thematically. But I do like the idea of increasing stats, and the stat-increasing items are basically factored into the assumed CR ratings so it's not fun to just toss them out. I'd advise rolling the average item-based stat-boost into character advancement.
 

Rodrigo Istalindir said:
I'm with KahunaBurger, especially with mental stats. A belt that makes you stronger, fine, ok, 90% of your day you're not going to miss it. But how do you deal with taking off a circlet that made you smarter, or made you perceive the universe in a way you couldn't otherwise. There's also a recursive aspect that bugs me -- if I'm smart enough to make me smarter, why don't I become smart enough to make me more smarter, as it were?

I also dislike them because their near-universal applicability makes them too desireable, it makes them boring, it places even more emphasis on stats than skills (or skill). I prefer lower magic games, and a gloves of +6 Dex is like a +3 armor, a +3 rapier, a +3 to every Dex skill item, and a +3 Reflex Save item all rolled into one. Because they are so good, they become no-brainers for those games where players feel entitled (or the DM allows) free or easy access to items.

+3 all saves: 9k - so we're at around 3k for Reflex arguably.
+3 armor: 9k - kind of, given stacking and such but Dex boosts also run into Max Dex
+3 weapon: 18k - except that Dex doesn't add to damage, doesn't help vs DR or incorporeal. Taking out the damage might be worth oh, 1/3rd the price roughly?

So we're at about 24k before the skills boosts. Sure, stat items are desireable, but I don't think they're really out of line in terms of value.

One of the main reason they seem so good is that magic spells don't replicate their functions easily. In 3.0, people would often eschew stat boosting items to use the bull's strength spells and such if they didn't need the bonus spells. With the spells being weaker now, the alternatives to the items aren't so good. If I have a weak or non existant magic weapon, GMW can often pump the character up for hours. But you can't buff your way around a missing stat item so easily. The duration is shorter, there's going to be lots of competition in terms of other minute spells to cast, and few casters are going to take the spells anyway since they don't stack with items.

As far as addictive properties go, I've never seen characters gladly part with such items. :)
 

Thanks for posting this....

I've been wrestling with what items to ditch for the upcoming campaigns. After reading Mearls' article on the "Big Six" this has given new life to the value of magical items.

Stat boosting items and skill-replacement items are pretty annoying aren't they. The power escalation is a primary reason why D&D seems so twinky nowadays.

I wonder how the new magic item book dealt with it.

jh
 

I think the major problem with stat boosters is that they're boring. A die roll modifier is not a wondrous thing. Then again, I've held this belief since I picked up my first sword +1 in 1979. :p
 

Rodrigo Istalindir said:
I'm with KahunaBurger, especially with mental stats. A belt that makes you stronger, fine, ok, 90% of your day you're not going to miss it. But how do you deal with taking off a circlet that made you smarter, or made you perceive the universe in a way you couldn't otherwise. There's also a recursive aspect that bugs me -- if I'm smart enough to make me smarter, why don't I become smart enough to make me more smarter, as it were?

I also dislike them because their near-universal applicability makes them too desireable, it makes them boring, it places even more emphasis on stats than skills (or skill). I prefer lower magic games, and a gloves of +6 Dex is like a +3 armor, a +3 rapier, a +3 to every Dex skill item, and a +3 Reflex Save item all rolled into one. Because they are so good, they become no-brainers for those games where players feel entitled (or the DM allows) free or easy access to items.


Funny thing is my players almost never use stat boost items even when they are availible. I've found that the desire for these items is greater among point build users than die rollers. Since I allow both at the table it can lead to some interesting comparisons when I see my copies of them.

As for the roleplay aspect we sat around and talked about it and the only way it makes sense is that the item does not actually make you smarter or more wise, but instead increases your ability to focus your mind into skills, ect that are based on it. Granted I also allow a great deal of leeway which Ability to use when in comes to certain Skills. (for example Intimidate I allow them to use the ability most relevent to the way in which they are trying to intimidate someone.)
 


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