D&D 5E Stat buy-in points

[Hereticus]

You should keep it by the book. You are going to screw up the balance of the game if you let the numbers go past 20. The Numbers are lower in this edition but you are not less powerful. Also you are supposed to pick race before class.

Speaking for myself only, I don't believe I had ever picked race before class. I pick a concept (class), then race, the create a detailed background (even before 5e).

Also lastly stats at creation are supposed to cap at 15 for a reason.

In the game I am currently playing, we rolled for our stat scores (against my mild objection). I like to see all players start their characters with equal opportunity, and randomization from dice rolls is for single occurrences. One guy rolled much better than everyone else, but everyone started with at least one 16. After the racial stat bonuses were added, everyone had an equivalent buy-in value in the 40s and 50s.

 

[Quartz]

Something I'm considering is dropping the stat bumps entirely - even the racial ones. Instead, at character creation demi-humans get their racial abilities and one racially restricted feat and humans get a free choice of 2 feats, and all can only choose feats thereafter. This might cause problems later when adventure designers assume a prime stat of 20 when 16 is the norm.

 

[Tormyr]

Pardon the question, but which book is the half-gnoll in?

I like the concept, I played a gnoll ranger in pathfinder who of course was always hungry (read the quote in my signature line).

Touché. I am open to things but my players have to discuss them with me.

In our previous mini campaign which encompassed Murder in Baldur's Gate and Legacy of the Crystal Shard, we had Cale the human druid. Cale was a healer and defender of the land and its people. This was under our previous DM who did not like how either of those two adventures were written. He burned a lot of time in adventures on the way to Icewind Dale. One of which was encountering a magical horse ranch. Cale spent a little too long in the field, and started changing into a horse. He fled, but he ended up with a slightly elongated face, 1 horse ear, and...other...horse parts.

I subbed in and ran a session while our DM was away. Trying to get the group back to Icewind Dale, they had no warm weather gear and were caught in a freak blizzard from the beginning of LotCS. One of the players who has military training told everyone else to go into their rations, get the bear fat out, and smear it on themselves as an insulating layer. A while later they came upon a hut with smoke coming from a chimney. They knocked on the door and were greeted by a Gnoll Aasimar. The group were led downstairs to a subterranean village warmed by hot springs. Most of the PCs decided to go and clean themselves off in the baths, but Cale decided to explore the village. He ran into a healer Gnoll heading over to heal the party. When she saw he was well endowed and caught a whiff of that fascinating scent (who knew that bear fat was an aprodesiac?), she led him into her hut. *Fade to black* I took over as DM soon after that. At the end of the campaign, when the snow melted on the pass, a Gnoll messenger came with the first caravan to Icewind Dale with a message for Cale. His lady friend needed him to return to discuss things of a personal nature.

As we were getting ready to play our current campaign, Cale's player asked if he could play Cale's sone Rawrland Caleson, the Half-Gnoll Paladin. I loved the concept, so worked on how to do it as by the book as possible. At that point, we only had the playtest, so I had him reskin the Half-Orc. When the PHB came out as well as the Basic DMG, I looked at how the Gnoll could be worked in as a player class. We chose the top to stats for ability score increases for a +2 Str/+1 Dex. He got the Gnoll's darkvision and speed. And we gave him the Gnoll's rampage ability with a bonus attack instead of a bite. In the end, there was actually less bonus than if he had chosen a race from the PHB. He also chose a Charisma of 8 for his Paladin.

But darn it if he doesn't role play the heck out of that character.

 

[Hereticus]

Something I'm considering is dropping the stat bumps entirely - even the racial ones. Instead, at character creation demi-humans get their racial abilities and one racially restricted feat and humans get a free choice of 2 feats, and all can only choose feats thereafter. This might cause problems later when adventure designers assume a prime stat of 20 when 16 is the norm.

Every game has its unique personality, and high stats do not make an interesting character. That said, you may want to eliminate or ease the prerequisites for multiclassing.

 

[Hereticus]

But darn it if he doesn't role play the heck out of that character.

I love the concept, this is the epitome of a DM working with a player to create interesting characters.

My gnoll ranger came about from the internet picture of the toasters chasing kittens, which morphed into monsters eating pets, which morphed into monsters eating elves. Mizro had many recipes for elf stew, to the chagrin of two characters. Dwarves tasted like chicken, but orcs tasted like horse meat.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

you may want to eliminate or ease the prerequisites for multiclassing.

This is a bad idea.

Anyway on the picking race first thing. It's in the basic rules and players handbook. It recommends Race, Class, Ability scores as the order.

 

[Hereticus]

you may want to eliminate or ease the prerequisites for multiclassing.

This is a bad idea.

Why?

He was talking about characters with lower than standard stats, even by the 5e book.

Anyway on the picking race first thing. It's in the basic rules and players handbook. It recommends Race, Class, Ability scores as the order.

As long as it is a recommendation and not a rule...

 

[Tormyr]

Something I'm considering is dropping the stat bumps entirely - even the racial ones. Instead, at character creation demi-humans get their racial abilities and one racially restricted feat and humans get a free choice of 2 feats, and all can only choose feats thereafter. This might cause problems later when adventure designers assume a prime stat of 20 when 16 is the norm.

I imagine that many players would be frustrated with having a +8 or +9 instead of a +11 to hit or DC16 or 17 instead of 19 at higher levels. Bounded accuracy makes it possible to play with this, but the usage of feats and ASI at my table is roughly level. I think that players like having choices available to them.

As a question to the thread at large, and this is an honest question that I am interested in hearing people's answers, who benefits from changes like these? Is it the DM for removing incentives for choosing certain race/class combinations and encouraging more variety? Is it the players who have their eyes opened to new possibilities? Do the monsters win for having easier heroes to fight against? Something else? Or does nobody win?

 

[Dausuul]

If you eliminate stat modifiers, you don't eliminate the pursuit of strong race/class combos--you just change what those combos are.

Case in point: Let's say you want to play a wizard. What's a good race for that? Well, humans get +1 Int and a free feat. Pretty strong. High elves also get +1 Int, but also +2 Dex, which is a darn handy stat for wizards. Mountain dwarves don't get any Int bonus, but they get proficiency with medium armor, covering one of the wizard's weak points, and they also get +2 Con, which is solid for anybody. And of course gnomes have that nice +2 Int.

Now, take away the stat modifiers and what happens? Suddenly mountain dwarf is the go-to race for wizards. Free medium armor proficiency! Humans come in second, and high elves and gnomes are just pointless.

Anyway on the picking race first thing. It's in the basic rules and players handbook. It recommends Race, Class, Ability scores as the order.

So has every edition of D&D ever, and it doesn't matter. That's not how people come up with character ideas. You can't write rules for creativity.

 

[the Jester]

Instead of six +1s to stats, the human variant gets +1 to two stats plus a bonuses skill and a bonus feat (bottom of p31). This seems less than what other races get, so I would add the equivalent to another +1, such as a proficiency, an advantage to a proficiency (with conditions), a language, a stat save advantage, etc. Basically a third of a feat, such as one luck point for a halfling to make up for their +1 bonus for the sub-races.

I think you're undervaluing the feat here. Starting with a feat at first level is bad ass.