Stat requirements

[KarinsDad]

I suspect there are easier ways to get to this point via prestige classes or whatever than what I've posited; I was only considering what I found in the SRD that applied.

That got you to 90. Even 100 with a 20 on the roll.

Course with this approach, you'd have to be close to level 300 to be able to learn Vengeful Gaze of God.

I suspect that PCs would have a very hard time getting there from level one playing the game.

 

[IanB]

Vengeful Gaze of God is a bit crazy, yes.

I suspect it is there more as an example of what you can do with the epic spellcasting creation rules rather than as something intended to ever see actual use. Most (although not all) of the other epic spells are well within the DC 90 striking range of that balance feat - indeed, I would argue its a bit easier for a wizard to justify the costs of getting to those high plusses than it is for a balancing rogue.

I think it is basically a token effort to say 'look, you can keep going forever!' like the CR 57 hecatoncheires or CR 66 great wyrm prismatic dragon.

If the feat system was designed the same way, we'd be seeing feats with prerequisites like 75 ranks of Spellcraft or 81 ranks of Diplomacy.

 

[KarinsDad]

Vengeful Gaze of God is a bit crazy, yes.

I suspect it is there more as an example of what you can do with the epic spellcasting creation rules rather than as something intended to ever see actual use. Most (although not all) of the other epic spells are well within the DC 90 striking range of that balance feat - indeed, I would argue its a bit easier for a wizard to justify the costs of getting to those high plusses than it is for a balancing rogue.

Well, I haven't seen any +20 Spellcraft items, but basically, I agree with this view.

 

[Krelios]

Magic Items and spells with a 24-hour or longer duration can be used to increase daily abilities (bonus spells, rage duration, lay on hands healing, etc.) but they cannot be used to qualify for feats any more than a headband of intellect can give you skill points. They are not permanent bonuses, so they can't provide access to permanent bonuses.

 

[KarinsDad]

Magic Items and spells with a 24-hour or longer duration can be used to increase daily abilities (bonus spells, rage duration, lay on hands healing, etc.) but they cannot be used to qualify for feats any more than a headband of intellect can give you skill points. They are not permanent bonuses, so they can't provide access to permanent bonuses.

That's how I see it too, but I cannot find any rules that support this position. Can you?

 

[Storm Raven]

Magic Items and spells with a 24-hour or longer duration can be used to increase daily abilities (bonus spells, rage duration, lay on hands healing, etc.) but they cannot be used to qualify for feats any more than a headband of intellect can give you skill points. They are not permanent bonuses, so they can't provide access to permanent bonuses.

A headband of Intellect does not provide skill points because of a specific limitation carved out in the description of the item. There are no such limitations carved out with respect to items and feats.

 

[Storm Raven]

Interesting. Would you also argue that a 1st level wizard who places 4 ranks in Spellcraft and takes the feat "Skill Focus: Spellcraft" now has 7 ranks? Or does he have 4 ranks with a +3 bonus?

Skill Focus gives a +3 unnamed bonus to skill checks with the relevant skill. It does not grant skill ranks.

All of the standard magic items that provide a bonus to an ability score (belts of Strength, cloaks of Charisma, gloves of Dexterity and so on) provide an enhancement bonus to the ability score itself. To be analogous to your Skill Focus argument, they would have to say something like "provides a +X bonus to ABILITY checks". They don't. They say "provides a +X enhancement bonus to ABILITY".

The magical chain shirt in your example has a +4 armor bonus, coupled with a +3 enhancement bonus. Not a +7 armor bonus.

Incorrect. It provides a +7 armor bonus.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The highest bonus items I've seen in the book are +30. Could you tell us where to find the +70 ones which allow DC 100 checks to be successful?

You don't need +70, as has been amply demonstrated.

 

[KarinsDad]

You don't need +70, as has been amply demonstrated.

No, you just need to be closer to a level 30 Epic character than a level 21 Epic character.


Also, another note is that you can also gain unnamed bonuses to ability scores with Epic feats, which also deflates the "You need items to qualify for Epic feats" argument.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

No, you just need to be closer to a level 30 Epic character than a level 21 Epic character.

Well, of course. You also need to be closer to a level 20 character than a level 1 character to Tumble at full speed all the time.

Also, another note is that you can also gain unnamed bonuses to ability scores with Epic feats, which also deflates the "You need items to qualify for Epic feats" argument.

You're talking about the Great [X] feats, yes?

Keep in mind that, generally speaking, they aren't available as bonus feats - meaning that it'll take you 30 Epic levels to get a +10 to an ability score.