Stat requirements

[Infiniti2000]

Likely because karinsdad isnt really making many rules arguements..

Of course not because there aren't any rules on this. There's nothing explicitly to support it and nothing explicitly to negate it. Thus, we're left with our interpretations, intent, and trying to use the existing rules for guidance. Most importantly, it totally depends on how individual DMs rule an undefined situation.

As for the ring though, its text in the srd is a little contradictory, does anyone have the actual book on hand?

Well, then, consider scrolls and UMD. Does a human fighter 1 with PBS, PS, WF, UMD and scrolls of divine power, polymorph, and any 1st level arcane spell qualify for arcane archer at 2nd level if he successfully casts the polymorph (half-elf) and divine power before levelling?

 

[baudbard]

hmmm... if you are a warrior with a 13 INT and Combat Expertise... and you take ability drain... do you lose access to the feat?

If you have improved trip... do you lose access to that as well?

If you belong to a prestige class that has Combat Expertise as a prerequisite... do you lose access to that PrC's class abilities until the ability score is recovered in some manner?

So far as I can tell... the RAW supports taking feats whenever you meet or exceed the requirements. However, it also clearly states that you lose access to feats when you no longer meet the prereq's.

PREREQUISITES
Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite.
A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite.

So... if you are willing to go through the trouble of building a character that could lose most of it's abilities for the duration of a dispel magic targeted on an important item... or, god forbid, Morty's D, then feel free. This requires much more paperwork... 10xthe work of keeping track of a wildmage's caster level with the practiced spellcaster feat.

NOTE: Not all feats in a feat chain are prerequisites.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Sure.

But according to CW16, as soon as the spell wears off, he loses access to all class features and abilities except hit dice, BAB, and base save bonuses...

-Hyp.

For the sake of this argument, I choose not to use CW16. Core only.

Here's another ridiculous hypothetical, but nonetheless interesting. An assassin with Int poison lurks nearby and readies to attack the mage as he levels. The mage gets hit, takes the poison damage, and suddenly no longer qualifies for archmage (e.g. due to the lack of the ability to cast 7th level spells). What happens? Does he fail to level and loses XP? Surely he can't legally gain the level in archmage, but he "started the process", so to speak. How would people who allow instantaneous levelling rule such a situation?

 

[steev42]

Here's another ridiculous hypothetical, but nonetheless interesting. An assassin with Int poison lurks nearby and readies to attack the mage as he levels. The mage gets hit, takes the poison damage, and suddenly no longer qualifies for archmage (e.g. due to the lack of the ability to cast 7th level spells). What happens? Does he fail to level and loses XP? Surely he can't legally gain the level in archmage, but he "started the process", so to speak. How would people who allow instantaneous levelling rule such a situation?

Quite simply, there is no way for the assassin to tell that the mage is leveling, therefore the readied action would be wasted.

However, as I'm pretty sure that wasn't the intent of your question, allow me to assume that somehow, he *could* tell the instant of level-up. Then, no, he would not fail to level. However, not currently meeting the requirements of the Archmage, he would be forced to choose a different class for that level. However, I would apply the 'similar rule' rule and say that he didn't lose skill points for the Int damage.

 

[Storm Raven]

Of course not because there aren't any rules on this. There's nothing explicitly to support it and nothing explicitly to negate it. Thus, we're left with our interpretations, intent, and trying to use the existing rules for guidance. Most importantly, it totally depends on how individual DMs rule an undefined situation.

Well, undefined except for the fact that the item provides an enhancement bonus to an ability score without providing a limitation on the effects of that enhancement. An enhancement bonus simply adds to the existing attribute ist enhances. For example, a suit of +3 full-plate armor grants a +11 armor bonus to armor class. It does not grant a +8 armor bonus and a +3 enhancment bonus. The enhancement bonus merely enhances the underlying attribute. The same holds true for ability score enhancing items.

Well, then, consider scrolls and UMD. Does a human fighter 1 with PBS, PS, WF, UMD and scrolls of divine power, polymorph, and any 1st level arcane spell qualify for arcane archer at 2nd level if he successfully casts the polymorph (half-elf) and divine power before levelling?

No, because you don't cast the spell from a scroll, you activate it. It is like casting a spell, but it isn't actually casting a spell. You also don't meet the BAB requirements, even with divine power. His BAB would be equivalent to his character level or +1.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Does he fail to level and loses XP?

Why would he lose XP?

Either the assassin hits him after he's taken a level in archmage, in which case CW16 would suggest he loses class abilities until the poison wears off; or he hits him before he's taken a level in archmage, in which case he can choose a different class in which to level...?

-Hyp.

 

[IcyCool]

Yes.
What does that have to do with feats or PrCs?

Just wondering if you were being consistent. Apparently, you aren't.

On the other hand, do you allow a 13th level wizard with a 16 Int to cast fox's cunning and level up to 14th level by taking Archmage (assume the other prerequisites are met)?

Yep, of course, as per the ruling in Complete Warrior, unless said wizard continues to meet the pre-requisites, he loses access to pretty much all of the Archmage abilities.

Or, can a human wizard polymorph into an elf to gain a level in arcane archer?

Again, yes. And again, that level won't do him much good unless he's in elf form.

 

[the Jester]

I allow it.

Think of it this way: isn't it cool to have a villain whose powers greatly depend on an item? If you take the epic crown of wizardry that gives, among other things, +20 int and +10 caster levels, from the BBEG he suddenly becomes a simple Int 14 high-level wizard, whose powers are crippled (more or less). A lot of the feats with high Int requirements that he's taken are lost, as he no longer qualifies; spells over 4th level are straight out; etc. I think that's a classic element of epic characters- their abilities are often tied to the Big Bad Item.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Why would he lose XP?

Perhaps because the levelling up was interrupted. What happens? That's why I'm asking.

Either the assassin hits him after he's taken a level in archmage, in which case CW16 would suggest he loses class abilities until the poison wears off; or he hits him before he's taken a level in archmage, in which case he can choose a different class in which to level...?

It gets into another realm of bizarreness whether you are forced to continue your action or whether you lose it. If I ready to attack you while you cast a spell, hit, and you fail a concentration check, can you choose not to go forward with that action? In other words, can you choose not to lose your spell? No, you lose the spell. The same question occurs here. Can you choose not to go forward with your level up? Do you risk losing your level in the same way you lost a spell? My interpretation on levelling up doesn't even remotely lead to such a bizarre scenario, but the instantaneous level up does. I ask it somewhat rhetorically, too, not expecting an answer but to illustrate a point that the instantaneous level up is strange -- not to mention just plain doing it in combat: "I move to flanking position next to the BBEG, level up, hmm...rogue sneak attack dice would be good for this...(modifies char sheet to add a level of rogue)...and attack!".

Quite simply, there is no way for the assassin to tell that the mage is leveling...

Why not?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Just wondering if you were being consistent. Apparently, you aren't.

Please explain. I missed the part where I was being inconsistent.

Yep, of course, as per the ruling in Complete Warrior, unless said wizard continues to meet the pre-requisites, he loses access to pretty much all of the Archmage abilities.

Again, yes. And again, that level won't do him much good unless he's in elf form.

And for someone who uses only the core rules?