Stat requirements

[Storm Raven]

Perhaps because the levelling up was interrupted. What happens? That's why I'm asking.

Levelling cannot be interrupted. It is not an in-game action.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Levelling cannot be interrupted. It is not an in-game action.

It's an in-game action according to the people who support the instantaneous level up. If you can cast a 1 round duration spell and level up before it's completed, it's clearly an in-game action. Of course, I agree with you and the bizarreness associated with it is why I vehemently oppose that interpretation.

 

[Storm Raven]

It's an in-game action according to the people who support the instantaneous level up. If you can cast a 1 round duration spell and level up before it's completed, it's clearly an in-game action. Of course, I agree with you and the bizarreness associated with it is why I vehemently oppose that interpretation.

No. You cast a 1 round duration spell before you level up, and then level up. It does not take any kind of in-game action to level up, and cannot be interrupted.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Well, undefined except for the fact ...

I was referring to "level up" when discussing undefined.

No, because you don't cast the spell from a scroll, you activate it. It is like casting a spell, but it isn't actually casting a spell. You also don't meet the BAB requirements, even with divine power. His BAB would be equivalent to his character level or +1.

When activating a scroll, you do cast the spell. At the very least, either way is supportable because there are multiple instances referring to "cast the spell" when using a scroll. I concede the point about divine power, however. I had forgotten the exact text of using character level and not caster level.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If I ready to attack you while you cast a spell, hit, and you fail a concentration check, can you choose not to go forward with that action? In other words, can you choose not to lose your spell? No, you lose the spell.

Levelling doesn't have an associated Concentration check

-Hyp.

 

[Storm Raven]

When activating a scroll, you do cast the spell. At the very least, either way is supportable because there are multiple instances referring to "cast the spell" when using a scroll. I concede the point about divine power, however. I had forgotten the exact text of using character level and not caster level.

No. Scrolls are activated. Read the text of the scroll entry. The activation allows the spell to be cast, but you are activating it, not casting the spell. The two are similar, but not the same.

 

[Infiniti2000]

No. You cast a 1 round duration spell before you level up, and then level up. It does not take any kind of in-game action to level up, and cannot be interrupted.

Says you. It totally depends on how a person defines levelling up. If you can do it between a move action and a standard action, however, then it's an in-game action.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Levelling doesn't have an associated Concentration check

-Hyp.

Perhaps, but that's why I ask.

No. Scrolls are activated. Read the text of the scroll entry. The activation allows the spell to be cast, but you are activating it, not casting the spell. The two are similar, but not the same.

Read the text yourself and find the instances where it says "cast the spell" or similar phrases. Of course, if a spell on a scroll is not cast, then who becomes the caster when such information is required? Then again, there's the UMD description which is the first place to look because that's most relevant to the example. The first two sentences say, "If you are casting a spell from a scroll, you have to decipher it first. Normally, to cast a spell from a scroll, you must have the scroll’s spell on your class spell list." Please tell me how "casting a spell from a scroll" doesn't mean "casting a spell from a scroll" and how "to cast a spell from a scroll" doesn't actually mean "to cast a spell from a scroll."

 

[IcyCool]

Please explain. I missed the part where I was being inconsistent.

Bob the 5th level wizard has a 12 Int. Bob aquires a Headband of Intellect +2 during his adventure. You now allow Bob to cast 3rd level spells, even though his base Int is 12. This is ok though, because the only requirement for a 5th level wizard to cast 3rd level spells is that he has an Int of 13 or more - and he has an Int of 14.

When Bob reaches 6th level, he goes to take Combat Expertise. You inform Bob that he can't take that feat, because the only requirement for a 6th level character to take the feat is that he has an Int of 13 or more - and he has an Int of 14.

Bob is left scratching his head in confusion over the apparent randomness of your calls.

And for someone who uses only the core rules?

I missed the bit where you told Hyp that before I posted, sorry about that. I'd probably house-rule the Complete Warrior bit in, to prevent the madness that is "the letter of the rules". Otherwise I'd have human wizards casting polymorph to get into the Arcane Archer prestige class and low-int wizards jumping into Archmage.

That's my take on it.

 

[Storm Raven]

Read the text yourself and find the instances where it says "cast the spell" or similar phrases. Of course, if a spell on a scroll is not cast, then who becomes the caster when such information is required? Then again, there's the UMD description which is the first place to look because that's most relevant to the example. The first two sentences say, "If you are casting a spell from a scroll, you have to decipher it first. Normally, to cast a spell from a scroll, you must have the scroll’s spell on your class spell list." Please tell me how "casting a spell from a scroll" doesn't mean "casting a spell from a scroll" and how "to cast a spell from a scroll" doesn't actually mean "to cast a spell from a scroll."

From the SRD, under the Heading "Scrolls":

Activate the Spell
Activating a scroll requires reading the spell from the scroll. The character must be able to see and read the writing on the scroll. Activating a scroll spell requires no material components or focus. (The creator of the scroll provided these when scribing the scroll.) Note that some spells are effective only when cast on an item or items. In such a case, the scroll user must provide the item when activating the spell. Activating a scroll spell is subject to disruption just as casting a normally prepared spell would be. Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance.

To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.

The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)
The user must have the spell on his or her class list.
The user must have the requisite ability score.

If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell’s caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps, below). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers.

Note the use of the term "activating", and not "casting". Note that using a scroll "is like casting a spell", which is different from "is casting a spell". There is exactly one reference to "casting" the spell, and 8 to the spell being "activated" or "used".