Stat this up # 2

Nookie

Villager
Yup! We've got room to add more powers to it too. Anyhow, I think that's enough of an outline for me to start up a Working Draft.



I'd rather give them fire resistance/immunity and just the Spirit subtype.

The Cold Resistance and liability to being rebuked/commanded/bolstered by Fire Domain clerics of the Fire Subtype just seems wrong to me. It also seems wrong for fire clerics to be able to command Red Dragons with their turn/rebuke power too, but that's another matter.

That reminds me, should the Foxdragon have the Spirit subtype added to it or just the Fox Dragon version? I'm inclined to reserve the subtype to the true dragon version and say the Foxdragon's been "promoted" to that subtype.
Lets go the promotion rout. Also good point about the rebuking.
 
Last edited:

Cleon

Adventurer
Lets go the promotion rout. Also good point about the rebuking.
Great! I'll start up a Working Draft with what we've got so far.

Any preferences for the fire resistance of the regular Foxdragon?

How about giving the basic Foxdragon fire resistance 10, a wyrmling Hu Lung fire resistance 20 and a juvenile one immunity to fire?

I would like most of their Oriental Dragon powers to kick in at the juvenile age category like a regular Lung Dragon.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Hu Lung (Fox Dragon) Working Draft

Hu Lung (Fox Dragon)
Dragon (Spirit)
Environment: Temperate or warm forests
Organization: Wyrmling, very young, young, juvenile, and young adult: solitary or clutch (2-5); adult, mature adult, old, very old, ancient, wyrm, or great wyrm: solitary, pair, or family (1-2 and 2-5 offspring)
Challenge Ratings: Wyrmling 3; very young 5; young 7; juvenile 9; young adult 11; adult 14; mature adult 16; old 19; very old 20; ancient 22; wyrm 23; great wyrm 25
Treasure: Triple standard
Alignment: Always chaotic neutral
Advancement: Wyrmling 6–7 HD; very young 9–10 HD; young 12–13 HD; juvenile 15–16 HD; young adult 18–19 HD; adult 21–22 HD; mature adult 24–25 HD; old 27–28 HD; very old 30–31 HD; ancient 33–34 HD; wyrm 36–37 HD; great wyrm 39+ HD
Level Adjustment: Wyrmling +2; very young +3; young +4; juvenile +4; others—

Hu Lungs by Age
Age
Size
Hit Dice (hp)
Str
Dex
Con
Int
Wis
Cha
BAB/
Grapple
AttackFort SaveRef SaveWill SaveFear
DC
WyrmlingT
5d12+5 (37)
11
16
13
12
13
12
+5/–3
+7
+5
+7
+5
Very young
S
8d12+8 (60)
13
14
13
12
13
12
+8/+5
+10
+7
+8
+7
Young
M
11d12+22 (93)
15
12
15
14
15
14
+11/+13
+13
+9
+8
+9
Juvenile
M
14d12+28 (119)
17
12
15
14
15
14
+14/+17
+17
+11
+9
+11
Young AdultL
17d12+51 (161)
19
10
17
16
17
16
+17/+25
+20
+13
+10
+13
21
Adult
L
20d12+80 (210)
23
10
19
16
17
16
+20/+30
+25
+16
+12
+15
23
Mature Adult
H
23d12+115 (264)
27
10
211819
18
+23/+39
+29
+18
+13
+17
25
Old
H
26d12+130 (299)
29
1021181918+26/+43
+33
+20
+15
+19
27
Very Old
H
29d12+174 (362)
31
10232021
20+29/+47
+37
+22
+16
+21
29
Ancient
H
32d12+192 (400)
33
10232021
20+32/+51
+41
+24
+18
+23
31
Wyrm
G
35d12+245 (472)
35
10252223
22+35/+59
+43
+26
+19
+25
33
Great Wyrm
G
38d12+304 (551)
37
1027222322+38/+63
+47
+29
+21
+27
35


Hu Lung Abilities by Age
Age
SpeedInitiativeACSpecial AbilitiesFoxfire'DCSR
Wyrmling
40 ft., fly 60 ft. (good)+019 (+2 size, +3 Dex, +4 natural), touch 15, flat-footed 16alternate form, flight, foxfire, heat haze, resistance to fire 20, foxfire tail, wingless13
Very young40 ft., fly 80 ft. (good)+020 (+1 size, +2 Dex, +7 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 18constrict 15
Young40 ft., fly 80 ft. (good)+021 (+1 Dex, +10 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 20improved grab17
Juvenile40 ft., fly 80 ft. (good)+023 (+13 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 23dancing lights, detect thoughts, disguise self, immunity to fire, invisibility, plane shift, foxfire aura (2d6), foxfire form, ventriloquism19
Young adult40 ft., fly 100 ft. (average)+025 (–1 size, +16 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 25DR 5/magic, firetails, frightful presence, tail sweep (180°), multiple tails (2)2119
Adult40 ft., fly 100 ft. (average)+028 (–2 size, +19 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 28foxfire aura (3d6) multiple tails (3), polymorph (self only), silent image2421
Mature adult40 ft., fly 100 ft. (average)+030 (–2 size, +22 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 30DR 10/magic, multiple tails (4), tail sweep (270°)2624
Old40 ft., fly 120 ft. (average)+033 (–2 size, +25 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 33major image, multiple tails (5)2826
Very old40 ft., fly 120 ft. (average)+036 (–2 size, +28 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 36DR 15/magic, multiple tails (6)3028
Ancient40 ft., fly 120 ft. (average)+039 (–2 size, +31 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 39 foxfire aura (4d6), mislead, multiple tails (7)3229
Wyrm40 ft., fly 150 ft. (poor)+040 (–4 size, +34 natural), touch 6, flat-footed 40DR 20/magic, multiple tails (8), tail sweep (360°)3430
Great wyrm40 ft., fly 150 ft. (poor)+043 (–4 size, +37 natural), touch 6, flat-footed 43mirage arcana, multiple tails (9)3732


A sinuous wingless dragon covered in bright red fur with deerlike antlers and a magnificent orange-red mane ornamenting its foxlike head. The tip of its long bushy tail is fiery yellow and glows with its own golden light.

Fox dragons are a very rare variety of dragon. They are mischievous tricksters who delight in using illusions and shapeshifting to indulge in petty pranks and thefts purely for the fun of it. They usually only use their powers to harm evil beings or creatures who offend them, but unfortunately some hu lung are offended by actions that humanoids might consider trivial or even polite. Hu lung sometimes associate with fox spirits and sylvan creatures with a similar prankster disposition, such groups tend to gather to achieve a particular joke or festival and break up as soon as it over. The Celestial Bureaucracy does not categorize hu lung as being "true" oriental dragons and sometimes punishes them for mischief-making or disobedience.

Combat
In most situations a hu lung will try to use invisibility, plane shift or mislead to avoid combat, but if angered or pressed they are deadly opponents. While they can freeze or incinerate most enemies with their supernatural foxfire or simply tear them apart with claws and fangs, hu lung generally prefer to use use spells or supernatural abilities to inflict some appropriately humiliating and/or deadly prank upon its their foes.

Alternate Form (Su): Hu lung can assume an alternate form as a standard action. From birth hu lung can assume the form of a fox or human, this form being a unique individual whose appearance matches the hu lung's actual age (so a wyrmling becomes a baby or fox cub and a wyrm takes the form of a hale but geriatric fox or human). Juvenile and older hu lung can use their disguise self spell-like ability to make their human form appear to be another humanoid (or their fox form appear to be a cat, dog, rabbit or similarly sized quadrupedal mammal). An adult or older hu lung can assume any animal or humanoid form of Large size or smaller. The dragon can remain in its animal or humanoid form until it chooses to assume a new one or return to its natural form.

Constrict (Ex): A very young or older hu lung has two forms of constrict attack it can make against an opponent it has grappled.

It can simply maintain its hold and inflict foxfire damage equal to its foxfire tail touch attack of 1d8 foxfire damage per age category of the dragon (no Strength adjustment).

Alternatively, the hu lung can crush the opponent with its tail. On a successful grapple check, the constrict attack inflicts damage equal to the hu lung's foxfire tail slap attack. On an unsuccessful grapple check, the opponent does not take any bludgeoning damage but still suffers the foxfire damage of the tail slap (1d4 foxfire damage per age category of the dragon).

The only way an opponent can avoid taking foxfire damage from a hu lung's constrict attack is by escaping from the hu lung's grapple before the dragon's initiative that round. If a hu lung is using its Foxfire Aura special ability the opponent will suffer foxfire damage from the aura in addition to the foxfire damage from the constrict attack.

Detect Thoughts (Su): Juvenile or older lung dragons can use this ability, as the spell of the same name, continuously, with a range equal to 5 feet × the dragon's age category.

Firetails (Su): A young adult or older hu lung can transform its tails into fire and separate them from its body as a swift action (reconnecting a firetail is a move action). The foxdragon can transform some of its tails into firetails and keep its remaining tails attached to its body. A firetail occupies a single square and can freely stack with other firetails from the same fox dragon without obstructing each other in any way. In most respects, the firetail is treated as if it was the fox dragon in foxfire form, meaning it can only make touch attacks. Attacks on a firetail will damage the fox dragon just like attacks on any other part of its body, but if a single attack inflicts more damage on a firetail than the dragon's age category the firetail is disrupted and rejoins with the hu lung's body.

Firetails have the same movement ability as the fox dragon's foxfire form and must remain within 50 feet of the foxdragon. This range limit increases to 80 feet for Huge fox dragons, 90 feet for Gargantuan ones and 100 feet for Colossal hu lung. Should some ability force a firetail beyond this limit, the firetail is disrupted and rejoins the hu lung's body.

The firetails can make a tail sweep attack, but to do so all the fox dragon's tails must be in firetail form and in contact with each other.

Foxfire (Su): A hu lung's body can produce a supernatural flame called foxfire that can exist underwater as well as in the air. The hu lung can produce foxfire as a swift action. Foxfire can be red, orange, blue, green, or violet. The hu lung can change its color at will as a free action. The light from foxfire can clearly illuminate a radius of up to 30 feet plus 10 feet per age category of the dragon and provide shadowy illumination to twice that radius. The hu lung can choose to reduce the radius of illumination by any degree it desires. A hu lung can choose to extinguish any part of its foxfire as a free action, including portions that are separate from its body such as victims it has set alight.

A hu lung can produce two kinds of foxfire: cold and hot. It can choose to affect any creature or object it touches with its foxfire as a free action, with the following effects:

Cold Foxfire: Targets damaged by cold foxfire take half cold damage and half untyped damage. The hu lung can choose to affect a target with "cool" foxfire that outlines the target with foxfire but causes no damage. Any subject affected by cold foxfire must succeed at the Reflex save indicated in the Hu Lung Abilities by Age table or become outlined in cold foxfire for 1d4 rounds plus 1 round per age category of the hu lung. During this duration the foxfire-outlined creature is dazzled, sheds light equivalent to a torch, and cannot benefit from any concealment normally provided by darkness, blur, displacement, invisibility, or similar effects. This effect is similar to the faerie fire spell. It does not have any special effect on undead or creatures vulnerable to light. The glowing creature can take a move action to attempt to extinguish the foxfire by rolling on the ground or otherwise smothering it, success requires another Reflex save with a +4 bonus. The save DCs are Constitution-based.

Hot Foxfire: Any target touched by hot foxfire is burned, taking the amount of foxfire damage indicated in the Hu Lung Abilities by Age table. Hot foxfire damage is half fire damage and half untyped damage. The fire damage only applies to subjects that are in air, if the subject is underwater it will only suffer the untyped half of the hot foxfire damage.

In addition, any subject hit by hot foxfire must succeed on a Reflex save or catch fire. The flame burns for 1d4 rounds plus 1 round per age category of the hu lung. A burning creature follows the standard rules for Catching On Fire except the DC to smother the flames equals the DC of the foxfire instead of the DC 15 of normal fire and they cannot automatically extinguish the flames by jumping into water (since foxfire burns underwater), although this does suppress the fire half of the damage. The save DCs are Constitution-based.

Foxfire Aura (Su): A juvenile or older hu lung can surround itself in an aura of foxfire (q.v.). Any creature striking the dragon with its body or melee weapons deals normal damage, but at the same time the attacker takes the amount of damage shown on the table above (2d6 for juvenile and young adult dragons, 3d6 for adult through very old dragons, and 4d6 for ancient and older dragons). Other lung dragons of any variety are immune to the foxfire aura, but this immunity does not extend to a hu lung's other foxfire attacks. The hu lung can dispel the foxfire aura at any time, but it is automatically dispelled by any contact with normal or magical electricity. Once the shield is dispelled by lightning, the hu lung cannot activate it again for 2d6 minutes.

Foxfire Form (Su): A juvenile or older fox dragon can transform its entire body into foxfire. In this form the dragon can flow through cracks of any size but can not pass through solid matter. It can not manipulate material objects, but can cast spells and benefit from natural armor. When in foxfire form a hu lung gains perfect maneuverability with its fly speed and it can still enter water or other liquids and swim.

The foxfire dragon cannot make physical attacks with its claws, bite, tail or other weapons while in foxfire form, but it can still use its foxfire touch attacks.

A fox dragon in foxfire form gains damage reduction 10/magic or its normal damage reduction increases by 5/magic (i.e. if it normally has DR 10/magic it becomes 15/magic as long as it remains in foxfire form).

Foxfire Tail (Ex): All hu lung dragons can make melee and touch attacks with their tails that can inflict foxfire damage. The dragon usually makes a tail attack as a primary natural weapon attack and makes its other natural weapon attacks (bite, claws) as secondary attacks, but it does have the option to make a primary attack with its bite and a secondary attack with its tail.

A hu lung dragon has increased Reach with its tail. Consult the Foxfire Tail Table for the reach and typical foxfire tail attack damage of standard hu lung dragons in each age category.

Tail Slap: If the dragon hits with a melee attack from its tail, it does bludgeoning damage plus 1d4 foxfire damage per age category of the dragon. A hu lung applies its Strength modifier to its tail slap's bludgeoning damage normally, it does not apply 1.5 times its Strength bonus like a standard true dragons.

Tail Touch: A hu lung dragon can make a melee touch attack with its tail as a standard action. This does 1d8 foxfire damage per age category of the dragon. The hu lung does not apply its Strength modifier to its tail touch damage.

Foxfire Tail Table
Age
Reach
Slap Damage
Touch Damage
Wyrmling
Very Young
Young
Juvenile
Young Adult
Adult
Mature Adult
Old
Very Old
Ancient
Wyrm
Great Wyrm
5 ft.
5 ft.
10 ft.
10 ft.
15 ft.
15 ft.
20 ft.
20 ft.
20 ft.
20 ft.
30 ft.
30 ft.
1d4 plus 1d4 foxfire
1d6+1 plus 2d4 foxfire
1d8+2 plus 3d4 foxfire
1d8+3 plus 4d4 foxfire
2d6+4 plus 5d4 foxfire
2d6+6 plus 6d4 foxfire
2d8+8 plus 7d4 foxfire
2d8+9 plus 8d4 foxfire
3d6+10 plus 9d4 foxfire
3d6+11 plus 10d4 foxfire
4d6+12 plus 11d4 foxfire
4d6+13 plus 12d4 foxfire
1d8 foxfire
2d8 foxfire
3d8 foxfire
4d8 foxfire
5d8 foxfire
6d8 foxfire
7d8 foxfire
8d8 foxfire
9d8 foxfire
10d8 foxfire
11d8 foxfire
12d8 foxfire
*The foxfire tail damage includes the Strength modifier of a standard hu lung of that age. If the dragon has a different Strength modifier adjust the tail damage accordingly.

Frightful Presence (Ex): A young adult or older lung dragon can unsettle foes with its mere presence. The ability takes effect automatically whenever the dragon attacks, charges, or flies overhead. Creatures within a radius of 30 feet × the dragon's age category are subject to the effect if they have fewer HD than the dragon.

A potentially affected creature that succeeds at a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 dragon's HD + dragon's Charisma modifier) remains immune to that dragon's frightful presence for one day. On a failure, creatures with 4 or fewer HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. Dragons ignore the frightful presence of other dragons.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a young or older hu lung must hit with a tail attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold. A hu lung with the constrict special attack can then attempt to constrict the opponent the following round.

Invisibility (Su): Juvenile or older lung dragons can become invisible or visible at will. As with the invisibility spell, making any attack causes the dragon to become visible.

Multiple Tails (Su): A young adult or older hu lung has more than one tail. They gain one additional tail per age category up to a maximum of nine tails for an ancient fox dragon.

A fox dragon with multiple tails can attack multiple opponents simultaneously whenever it makes a melee, touch or grapple attack with its tail. Multiple tails attacks do normal damage but have an penalty to attack rolls equal to the number of targets and a penalty to grapple checks equal to twice the number of targets. A hu lung cannot target a single opponent with more than one of its multiple tails attacks, nor can it make multiple tails attacks when making an attack of opportunity. It can freely combine types of attack with multiple tails (i.e. a five tailed fox dragon can perform two tail slaps, two tail touches and a grapple as a standard attack with its tail provided these five attacks are against different opponents, with a –5 penalty to the attack rolls and a –10 penalty to the grapple check).

Plane Shift (Sp): Juvenile or older lung lung dragons can move between the Spirit World and the Material Plane as often as they desire. Shifting planes is a standard action.

Tail Sweep (Ex): A hu lung of at least Large size can sweep with its tail as a standard action. The sweep affects a half circle with a diameter equal to twice the reach of the dragon's foxfire tail attack. A Huge fox dragon's tail sweep affects a three-quarter circle (i.e. 270°) and a Gargantuan or larger fox dragon's tail sweep affects a full 360° circle.

The Tail Sweep has the same "slap" and "touch" options as the Foxfire Tail. The sweep deals damage equal to the dragon's Foxfire Tail attack (see the Foxfire Tail ability) with a Reflex save to halve the damage against a DC equal to the dragon's foxfire. The "slap" option only affects creatures that are two or more size categories smaller than the dragon while the "touch" option has no size restrictions.

Other Spell-Like Abilities: At will—dancing lights, disguise self, ventriloquism; 3/day—major image, polymorph (self only), silent image; 1/day—mirage arcana, mislead.

Wingless: Hu lung have no wings so can not use wing attacks.

Skills: Disguise, Perform, and Swim are considered class skills for all lung dragons.

Homebrew.
 
Last edited:

Nookie

Villager
Great! I'll start up a Working Draft with what we've got so far.

Any preferences for the fire resistance of the regular Foxdragon?

How about giving the basic Foxdragon fire resistance 10, a wyrmling Hu Lung fire resistance 20 and a juvenile one immunity to fire?

I would like most of their Oriental Dragon powers to kick in at the juvenile age category like a regular Lung Dragon.
Sounds good to me.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
First let's get a couple of basics out of the way.

What spell resistance shall we give it? Do we use the SR of a Copper Dragon as "coppered" in to the current draft or shall we use a Pan Lung's slightly better SR instead? A Pan lung has SR 19 at young adult and at older ages its SR is one point higher than a Copper Dragon.

[EDIT]
Minor Error - Pan Lungs have one-point higher SRs Mature Adult, not at Adult. Their spell resistance go:
19/21/24/26/28/30/32 (Pan Lung)
19/21/23/25/26/29/31 (Copper)
[/EDIT]

I currently favour using the Pan Lung's SR, just to make it a bit more different from a Copper Dragon.

What land and fly speed ought it to have? The regular Foxdragon has 40 ft., fly 60 ft. (good) so 40 ft. for the land speed seems reasonable, but what about the flying speed?

Maybe use a Pan Lung's speeds (fly 100 ft. from Juvenile to Ancient and fly 150 ft. for Wyrms) but maybe tweak it to be a bit more maneuverable.

* * *​

Secondly, you were talking about giving it an ability that summon fire-elemental equivalent balls of fire. What age should that be introduced at?

Do you have any preferences for a name? I was thinking maybe "summon fire orbs".

Hmm… rather than reinventing the wheel perhaps we could modify the Lightning Quasi-Elemental's globes special attack instead?
Globes (Ex): Once per round, a lightning quasi-elemental can generate a small globe of electricity as a free action. These globes randomly follow the lightning quasi-elemental around wherever it goes.

If a grounded object or a metallic object comes within the lightning quasi-elemental's Reach, its globes automatically make a single touch attack against this target as a free action. This touch attack has an attack bonus equal to the quasi-elemental's slam attack, plus a circumstance bonus equal to the total number of globes deployed. If the globes' attack hits, one of the globes discharges itself into the target and vanishes, inflicting damage equal to the lightning quasi-elemental's Electricity special attack. The globes can attack multiple targets in the same round, but an individual target can only be attacked once in any given round. As the saying goes, "lightning never strikes the same place twice".

A globe discharges itself harmlessly if it has not struck a target within 10 minutes of being generated. The lightning quasi-elemental can also re-absorb any number of its globes as a free action. A lightning quasi-elemental can produce a maximum number of globe discharges per day equal to its Hit Dice. Re-absorbed globes have not been discharged, so they do not count against this limit, but globes that discharge without striking a target do.

I'm also thinking an interesting alternative would be if the fox dragon transformed itself into a flying ball of fire, or maybe a bunch of orbs that fly together?

What do you think?
 
Last edited:

Nookie

Villager
First let's get a couple of basics out of the way.

What spell resistance shall we give it? Do we use the SR of a Copper Dragon as "coppered" in to the current draft or shall we use a Pan Lung's slightly better SR instead? A Pan lung has SR 19 at young adult and at older ages its SR is one point higher than a Copper Dragon.

I currently favour using the Pan Lung's SR, just to make it a bit more different from a Copper Dragon.

What land and fly speed ought it to have? The regular Foxdragon has 40 ft., fly 60 ft. (good) so 40 ft. for the land speed seems reasonable, but what about the flying speed?

Maybe use a Pan Lung's speeds (fly 100 ft. from Juvenile to Ancient and fly 150 ft. for Wyrms) but maybe tweak it to be a bit more maneuverable.

* * *​

Secondly, you were talking about giving it an ability that summon fire-elemental equivalent balls of fire. What age should that be introduced at?

Do you have any preferences for a name? I was thinking maybe "summon fire orbs".

Hmm… rather than reinventing the wheel perhaps we could modify the Lightning Quasi-Elemental's globes special attack instead?
Globes (Ex): Once per round, a lightning quasi-elemental can generate a small globe of electricity as a free action. These globes randomly follow the lightning quasi-elemental around wherever it goes.

If a grounded object or a metallic object comes within the lightning quasi-elemental's Reach, its globes automatically make a single touch attack against this target as a free action. This touch attack has an attack bonus equal to the quasi-elemental's slam attack, plus a circumstance bonus equal to the total number of globes deployed. If the globes' attack hits, one of the globes discharges itself into the target and vanishes, inflicting damage equal to the lightning quasi-elemental's Electricity special attack. The globes can attack multiple targets in the same round, but an individual target can only be attacked once in any given round. As the saying goes, "lightning never strikes the same place twice".

A globe discharges itself harmlessly if it has not struck a target within 10 minutes of being generated. The lightning quasi-elemental can also re-absorb any number of its globes as a free action. A lightning quasi-elemental can produce a maximum number of globe discharges per day equal to its Hit Dice. Re-absorbed globes have not been discharged, so they do not count against this limit, but globes that discharge without striking a target do.

I'm also thinking an interesting alternative would be if the fox dragon transformed itself into a flying ball of fire, or maybe a bunch of orbs that fly together?

What do you think?

Lets go with pan Lung SR.

I think fire elementals or the balls would be fine The balls would slow down combat much less than potentially several fire elementals so more leaning towards the balls one ball per hit dice max out at one time is equal to the number of dragon tales.

Maybe we can just give it summon natures ally as a SLA or something like that as a SLA filler ability.

The dragon could become a "Swarm" Of Tiny motes of foxfire at a certain age catagory that would be verry intersting.

As for flying im ok with the lan lung but more maneuverable. maybe even more maneuverable in its Mote swarm form if we decide to go that way.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Lets go with pan Lung SR.
Updating the Hu Lung Working Draft.

As for flying im ok with the lan lung but more maneuverable. maybe even more maneuverable in its Mote swarm form if we decide to go that way.
We could start it at 60 ft. (good) like a Foxdragon and graduate it up from there?

Something like:

Wyrmling: fly 60 ft. (good)
Young: fly 80 ft. (good)
Old: fly 100 ft. (average)
Wyrm: fly 150 ft. (poor)

Hmm… that'd mean it's significantly slower than most dragons. Perhaps add more graduations:

Wyrmling: fly 60 ft. (good)
Very Young: fly 80 ft. (good)
Young Adult: fly 100 ft. (average)
Old: fly 120 ft. (average)
Wyrm: fly 150 ft. (poor)

That's more steps than dragons usually have (they typically only have 2 or 3 flight speed steps), but I quite like it.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
I think fire elementals or the balls would be fine The balls would slow down combat much less than potentially several fire elementals so more leaning towards the balls one ball per hit dice max out at one time is equal to the number of dragon tales.

*SNIP*

The dragon could become a "Swarm" Of Tiny motes of foxfire at a certain age catagory that would be verry intersting.

*SNIP*

maybe even more maneuverable in its Mote swarm form if we decide to go that way.
How about the separate fireballs literally are the Dragon's tails? The Foxdragon and presumably the Hu Lung have a gout of fire on the end of their tails, so perhaps the dragon can separate the fire and/or tail and fly it around as a separate entity?

We could call the ability "Firetails".

I'd suggest that it normally only turns its extra tails into firetails, but if it turns its "main tail" into a firetail then the Fox Dragon's entire body turns into a fireball or comet.

That also suggests that if an "secondary firetail" is destroyed the Hu Lung takes some damage (much like a giant octopus takes damage from a severed tentacle).

Are you OK with my suggestion that the Hu Lung's number of tails equals its age category minus 3? i.e. a Wyrm (age 11) will have eight tails?
 

Nookie

Villager
How about the separate fireballs literally are the Dragon's tails? The Foxdragon and presumably the Hu Lung have a gout of fire on the end of their tails, so perhaps the dragon can separate the fire and/or tail and fly it around as a separate entity?

We could call the ability "Firetails".

I'd suggest that it normally only turns its extra tails into firetails, but if it turns its "main tail" into a firetail then the Fox Dragon's entire body turns into a fireball or comet.

That also suggests that if an "secondary firetail" is destroyed the Hu Lung takes some damage (much like a giant octopus takes damage from a severed tentacle).

Are you OK with my suggestion that the Hu Lung's number of tails equals its age category minus 3? i.e. a Wyrm (age 11) will have eight tails?
So you want the dragon to have Fire elementals in its tale? Or were you thinking the balls? Or the tale separates from the dragon to become Something else.

The "more steps" fly speed seems fine to me.

Yeah it's comet form can be faster and more maneuverable but it looses some offense In that form Claws and bites but can burn creatures that get near it.

Number of tales should be 1 + age category -4
 

Cleon

Adventurer
So you want the dragon to have Fire elementals in its tale? Or were you thinking the balls? Or the tale separates from the dragon to become Something else.
I was thinking it could separate its extra tails and basically use them as remote-control fire drones.

Anyhow it'll be clearer once I work up a rough draft for the special attack(s).

The "more steps" fly speed seems fine to me.
Fine.

Updating the Hu Lung Working Draft.

Yeah it's comet form can be faster and more maneuverable but it looses some offense In that form Claws and bites but can burn creatures that get near it.
Yes, I was thinking it'd be similar to gaseous form but a lot faster. It'd lose most of its attacks but would still be able to burn things and cast some spells.

Come to think of it, did I remember to mention it doesn't get wing attacks? I think I did.

Oh, and I was also wondering whether it would have an improved grab/constrict attack, since I recall a few Lung Dragons can do that. With all those tails it might be able to tail-grab multiple opponents!

Number of tales should be 1 + age category -4
Well that's pretty much the same as age category minus 3. I guess I should have included a "minimum 1".
 

Nookie

Villager
I was thinking it could separate its extra tails and basically use them as remote-control fire drones.

Anyhow it'll be clearer once I work up a rough draft for the special attack(s).



Fine.

Updating the Hu Lung Working Draft.



Yes, I was thinking it'd be similar to gaseous form but a lot faster. It'd lose most of its attacks but would still be able to burn things and cast some spells.

Come to think of it, did I remember to mention it doesn't get wing attacks? I think I did.

Oh, and I was also wondering whether it would have an improved grab/constrict attack, since I recall a few Lung Dragons can do that. With all those tails it might be able to tail-grab multiple opponents!



Well that's pretty much the same as age category minus 3. I guess I should have included a "minimum 1".

You did mention no wing attacks but the all the tale stuff will make up for that i think. Multi grab could be fun :D
 

Cleon

Adventurer
You did mention no wing attacks but the all the tale stuff will make up for that i think. Multi grab could be fun :D
OK, I'll update the working draft with "Fiery Form", "Firetails" and "Multiple Tails" in the Abilities by Age section.

Are we going for the Improved Grab/Constrict option?

If so, when should it develop. I'm thinking maybe give it Improved Grab at Very Young and Constrict at Young? It's a bit of a break from tradition, but it'd be nice to have something in those empty Special Ability slots.
 

Nookie

Villager
OK, I'll update the working draft with "Fiery Form", "Firetails" and "Multiple Tails" in the Abilities by Age section.

Are we going for the Improved Grab/Constrict option?

If so, when should it develop. I'm thinking maybe give it Improved Grab at Very Young and Constrict at Young? It's a bit of a break from tradition, but it'd be nice to have something in those empty Special Ability slots.

grab constrict Sounds fabulous to me. So tale attack is damage + free grab.

We are putting allot of stock in fire damage makeing the aplication of spell or two able to nerf the dragon into few offencive options. Maybe the "Foxfire" has a portion of it be untyped damage?
 

Cleon

Adventurer
grab constrict Sounds fabulous to me. So tale attack is damage + free grab.

We are putting allot of stock in fire damage makeing the aplication of spell or two able to nerf the dragon into few offencive options. Maybe the "Foxfire" has a portion of it be untyped damage?
Yes I was thinking we'd better do something to ensure resistance/immunity to fire don't render most of its attacks pointless.

There is some precedent for Lung Dragons having "none-standard fire" since some of them have a Water Fire ability that burns underwater and is put out by fire attacks!

Which reminds me. I was going to suggest that its "foxfire" can burn underwater as well as in the air. Typeless damage is worth considering.

Maybe half typeless damage (which works underwater) and half fire damage (which doesn't)?
 

Nookie

Villager
Yes I was thinking we'd better do something to ensure resistance/immunity to fire don't render most of its attacks pointless.

There is some precedent for Lung Dragons having "none-standard fire" since some of them have a Water Fire ability that burns underwater and is put out by fire attacks!

Which reminds me. I was going to suggest that its "foxfire" can burn underwater as well as in the air. Typeless damage is worth considering.

Maybe half typeless damage (which works underwater) and half fire damage (which doesn't)?
Thats kind of what i was thinking So foxfire is half un-typed damage and causes dazzle & fearie fire.

We could also give the dragon greater dispelling to deal with pesky anti fire magical effects.

It soule have a couple trixy/fey spell like ability in line with is sylvan guardian.

Sense it can become a comet maybe it can also be a guardian of the night sky or something like that?

Ohh that makes me want to give it a spelljammer sidebar.
 
Last edited:

Cleon

Adventurer
Thats kind of what i was thinking So foxfire is half un-typed damage and causes dazzle & fearie fire.

We could also give the dragon greater dispelling to deal with pesky anti fire magical effects.

It soule have a couple trixy/fey spell like ability in line with is sylvan guardian.

Sense it can become a comet maybe it can also be a guardian of the night sky or something like that?

Ohh that makes me want to give it a spelljammer sidebar.
Let's not get too carried away. If we talk about multiple special abilities simultaneously there's a risk we'll start mixing them up, so I think it's better to deal with them either one at a time or a few closely related abilities.

It seems simplest if we go through them in age category order, which would put the Heat Haze as the first ability. Just reusing the Foxdragon version is fine by me. Do you agree with that or would you rather modify the mechanics?

That puts Foxfire Tail next. Would you care to try a rough draft for that?
 

Nookie

Villager
Let's not get too carried away. If we talk about multiple special abilities simultaneously there's a risk we'll start mixing them up, so I think it's better to deal with them either one at a time or a few closely related abilities.

It seems simplest if we go through them in age category order, which would put the Heat Haze as the first ability. Just reusing the Foxdragon version is fine by me. Do you agree with that or would you rather modify the mechanics?

That puts Foxfire Tail next. Would you care to try a rough draft for that?

Foxfire tale (Su): The fox dragon can bristle its tale(s)up ignite it in a blueish flame, This flame has all the properties of normal fire except that half of its damage is untyped. Creatures that are struck by the fox dragons tale attacks take the listed damage and must roll a dx X Y save or becomes dazzled for one round per age catagory if the dragon and be subject to a fearie fire spell for the same duration. The save is constitution based.

At X age catagory the Dragon can release the fire from its tales into glowing blue orbs that travel with the dragon. as a free action the dragon can make the orbs moves where it wants to within 10 ft per age catagory. creatures entering the same square as an orb takes X foxfire damage.

If the dragon hits with an attack of opportunity it can cause an adjacent orb to also strike the same target causing it to explode in a five ft burst dealing x damage.

the dragon can have one orb active per tale and can generate a number of orbs per day equal to its hit dice.

Maybe make it somehow harder to extinguish or something.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Foxfire tale (Su): The fox dragon can bristle its tale(s)up ignite it in a blueish flame, This flame has all the properties of normal fire except that half of its damage is untyped. Creatures that are struck by the fox dragons tale attacks take the listed damage and must roll a dx X Y save or becomes dazzled for one round per age catagory if the dragon and be subject to a fearie fire spell for the same duration. The save is constitution based.

At X age catagory the Dragon can release the fire from its tales into glowing blue orbs that travel with the dragon. as a free action the dragon can make the orbs moves where it wants to within 10 ft per age catagory. creatures entering the same square as an orb takes X foxfire damage.

If the dragon hits with an attack of opportunity it can cause an adjacent orb to also strike the same target causing it to explode in a five ft burst dealing x damage.

the dragon can have one orb active per tale and can generate a number of orbs per day equal to its hit dice.

Maybe make it somehow harder to extinguish or something.
Erm, it's spelled "tail" you know, unless the Hu Lung is armed with flaming stories.

I was going to have the Orbs explained in separate special abilities.

Indeed, I'm thinking we might separate out the explanation of "Foxfire":

Foxfire (Su): A Hu Lung's body can produce a supernatural flame called foxfire that can exist underwater as well as in the air. The Hu Lung can produce foxfire as a swift action. Foxfire can be red, orange, blue, green, or violet. The Hu Lung can change its color at will as a free action. The light from foxfire can clearly illuminate a radius of up to 30 feet plus 10 feet per age category of the dragon and provide shadowy illumination to twice that radius. The Hu Lung can choose to reduce the radius of illumination by any degree it desires. A Hu Lung can choose to extinguish any part of its foxfire as a free action, including portions that are separate from its body such as victims it has set alight.

A Hu Lung can produce two kinds of foxfire: cold and hot. It can choose to affect any creature or object it touches with its foxfire as a free action, with the following effects:

Cold Foxfire: Any subject affected by cold foxfire must succeed at the Reflex save indicated in the Hu Lung Abilities by Age table or become outlined in cold foxfire for 1d4 rounds plus 1 round per age category of the Hu Lung. During this duration the foxfire-outlined creature is dazzled, sheds light equivalent to a torch, and cannot benefit from any concealment normally provided by darkness, blur, displacement, invisibility, or similar effects. This effect is similar to the faerie fire spell. It does not have any special effect on undead or creatures vulnerable to light. [A burning creature can take a move action to attempt to put out the foxfire by rolling on the ground or otherwise smothering it, success requires another Reflex save with a +4 bonus.] The save DCs are Constitution-based.

Hot Foxfire: Any subject touched by hot foxfire is burned, taking the amount of foxfire damage indicated in the Hu Lung Abilities by Age table. Foxfire damage is half fire damage and half untyped damage. The fire damage only applies to subjects that are in air, if the subject is underwater it will only suffer the untyped half of the hot foxfire damage.

In addition, any subject hit by hot foxfire must succeed on a Reflex save or catch fire. The flame burns for 1d4 rounds plus 1 round per age category of the Hu Lung. A burning creature follows the standard rules for Catching On Fire except the DC to smother the flames equals the DC of the foxfire instead of the DC 15 of normal fire and they cannot automatically extinguish the flames by jumping into water (since foxfire burns underwater), although this does cancel the fire half of the damage. The save DCs are Constitution-based.
 

Nookie

Villager
Erm, it's spelled "tail" you know, unless the Hu Lung is armed with flaming stories.

I was going to have the Orbs explained in separate special abilities.

Indeed, I'm thinking we might separate out the explanation of "Foxfire":

Foxfire (Su): A Hu Lung's body can produce a supernatural flame called foxfire that can exist underwater as well as in the air. The Hu Lung can produce foxfire as a swift action. Foxfire can be red, orange, blue, green, or violet. The Hu Lung can change its color at will as a free action. The light from foxfire can clearly illuminate a radius of up to 30 feet plus 10 feet per age category of the dragon and provide shadowy illumination to twice that radius. The Hu Lung can choose to reduce the radius of illumination by any degree it desires. A Hu Lung can choose to extinguish any part of its foxfire as a free action, including portions that are separate from its body such as victims it has set alight.

A Hu Lung can produce two kinds of foxfire: cold and hot. It can choose to affect any creature or object it touches with its foxfire as a free action, with the following effects:

Cold Foxfire: Any subject affected by cold foxfire must succeed at the Reflex save indicated in the Hu Lung Abilities by Age table or become outlined in cold foxfire for 1d4 rounds plus 1 round per age category of the Hu Lung. During this duration the foxfire-outlined creature is dazzled, sheds light equivalent to a torch, and cannot benefit from any concealment normally provided by darkness, blur, displacement, invisibility, or similar effects. This effect is similar to the faerie fire spell. It does not have any special effect on undead or creatures vulnerable to light. [A burning creature can take a move action to attempt to put out the foxfire by rolling on the ground or otherwise smothering it, success requires another Reflex save with a +4 bonus.] The save DCs are Constitution-based.

Hot Foxfire: Any subject touched by hot foxfire is burned, taking the amount of foxfire damage indicated in the Hu Lung Abilities by Age table. Foxfire damage is half fire damage and half untyped damage. The fire damage only applies to subjects that are in air, if the subject is underwater it will only suffer the untyped half of the hot foxfire damage.

In addition, any subject hit by hot foxfire must succeed on a Reflex save or catch fire. The flame burns for 1d4 rounds plus 1 round per age category of the Hu Lung. A burning creature follows the standard rules for Catching On Fire except the DC to smother the flames equals the DC of the foxfire instead of the DC 15 of normal fire and they cannot automatically extinguish the flames by jumping into water (since foxfire burns underwater), although this does cancel the fire half of the damage. The save DCs are Constitution-based.
Looks amazing.
So this look alright for the orbs?

Foxfire Orbs (Su): At X age catagory (Whenever it gets its second tale makes sense. I thinks its juvenile.) the Dragon can release the fire from its tales into glowing (Foxfire Color) orbs that travel with the dragon. as a free action the dragon can make the orbs moves where it wants to within 10 ft per age catagory. creatures entering the same square as an orb takes x (Maybe 1d6 Per 3 or 4 age catagory?) foxfire damage. the dragon often uses foxfire in this way to dissuade flanking.

If the dragon hits with an attack of opportunity it can cause an adjacent orb to also strike the same target causing it to explode in a five ft burst dealing x damage.

the dragon can have one orb active per tale and can generate a number of orbs per day equal to its hit dice.


 

Advertisement

Top