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D&D 5E State of D&D

Ilbranteloth

Explorer
Because it helps the community.

I know this might be a small thing, but people interested in the .pdfs are, by and large, already players. They just want it to be more convenient. That's a great thing - and certainly a worthy desire, but it's not necessarily important to the health of the community.

The basic rules (for players who are gaining exposure) are available as .pdfs. More importantly, a FLGS is often a place in the community for people to meet, discuss, and/or a space at times to play. Yes, in this new age of playing over the internet it is not as important to have that brick and mortar presence, but (especially for new players) it can be important.

I don't think anybody except perhaps WotC has the data to make a claim that it's only people who are already players that want the pdfs.

Nor do I think we can lay claim that WotC made the decision to appease local stores, nor am I aware of any requirement to carry Magic to be able to carry D&D and vice versa. They do have arrangements to get things early, get extra things, etc. as part of their partners program. But that's just typical (and good) business practices.

As I mentioned before, the decision to make pdf versions available will be a business decision and that's it. If they determine it makes good business sense, they'll do it. Even if their reasoning is bad, if they don't think it makes good business sense, they won't do it.

Ilbranteloth
 

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Tony Vargas

Legend
Having said that, it often feels that a single monster isn't much a challenge individually. I guess what would be helpful is an actual comparison. What was it like to fight a single ogre, a single troll, a single bone devil, etc. in each edition? Is there really a difference, or is it a perception thing? If it's real, is it a bad thing?
Interesting question.

In Classic D&D (I'm thinking mostly 1e, since I played it so heavily, but tapered off in the 2e years, and only briefly played Basic), most monsters didn't have a lot of hps relative to what PCs could dish out, so a 'solo' fight against a straightforward monster was usually short. The thing is, the game was full of monsters with immunities and tricks and gotchyas, so it was rarely straightforward. A non-trivial combat vs a lone monster would consist of many rounds 'wasted' on attacks, spells, and actions that were misdirected by some trick, missed, stopped by magic resistance, or otherwise accomplished little or nothing. Eventually you'd figure out how to kill the thing - or it'd kill you.

3e, a lone monster was the baseline same-CR-as-level encounter. They still tended to be over quick, but the monsters could do so much damage or have such devastating special attacks that it could take a PC or two down in the one or two rounds it lasted. Not quite the 'rocket tag' of high-level casters, but suggestive of it.

4e, had some monsters that were specifically designed to be solos. Initially, they were just big bags of hps that took a while to empty and were, in spite of a +5 save bonus, sadly susceptible to being locked down. Later they were given more and more interesting offense and action-preservation tricks that made Solo encounters as challenging and interesting as set-piece ones.

5e we've already heard about, of course. In theory you can use a higher CR monster as a solo, in practice Bounded Accuracy either lets you burn it down fast or it's high damage or some other nastiness overwhelms you.
OTOH, Legendary monsters are, like 4e solos, designed specifically to challenge a whole party and have powers to give them more & more interesting offense and action preservation including Legendary Actions.
But, they're still up against the advantage Bounded Accuracy gives to the numerically superior side of any battle.
 

Ilbranteloth

Explorer
Interesting question.

In Classic D&D (I'm thinking mostly 1e, since I played it so heavily, but tapered off in the 2e years, and only briefly played Basic), most monsters didn't have a lot of hps relative to what PCs could dish out, so a 'solo' fight against a straightforward monster was usually short. The thing is, the game was full of monsters with immunities and tricks and gotchyas, so it was rarely straightforward. A non-trivial combat vs a lone monster would consist of many rounds 'wasted' on attacks, spells, and actions that were misdirected by some trick, missed, stopped by magic resistance, or otherwise accomplished little or nothing. Eventually you'd figure out how to kill the thing - or it'd kill you.

3e, a lone monster was the baseline same-CR-as-level encounter. They still tended to be over quick, but the monsters could do so much damage or have such devastating special attacks that it could take a PC or two down in the one or two rounds it lasted. Not quite the 'rocket tag' of high-level casters, but suggestive of it.

4e, had some monsters that were specifically designed to be solos. Initially, they were just big bags of hps that took a while to empty and were, in spite of a +5 save bonus, sadly susceptible to being locked down. Later they were given more and more interesting offense and action-preservation tricks that made Solo encounters as challenging and interesting as set-piece ones.

5e we've already heard about, of course. In theory you can use a higher CR monster as a solo, in practice Bounded Accuracy either lets you burn it down fast or it's high damage or some other nastiness overwhelms you.
OTOH, Legendary monsters are, like 4e solos, designed specifically to challenge a whole party and have powers to give them more & more interesting offense and action preservation including Legendary Actions.
But, they're still up against the advantage Bounded Accuracy gives to the numerically superior side of any battle.

If I start a new thread to test this out, will people follow? It's not really the topic of this thread to start with...

Ilbranteloth
 

ZzarkLinux

First Post
Were you the kid who always connected the dots by drawing a squiggly line between them?
One of my earliest memories was me trying to color real hard inside the lines. And I mostly succeeded too. Nothing wrong with taking pride in the simple things ! /coolmemoriesofyouth

But my point stands that if WotC's "goal" is to please LGSs, then they need to seek other options than "avoiding PDFs and printing to very specific requirements for LGSs" . Relocating / centralizing FLGS is just one option to fund FLGS, and would greatly reduce costs all around.

You want something more practical?

Then for every book they release, they can also print a smaller run of " Limited Edition" of that same book. The "Limited Edition" also has a PDF code for subscribers (yes, I know PDF codes don't work, but it's a starting point). Any LGSs that stock and shelve the Limited Edition will notice over time that they aren't losing profits just because of PDFs. So maybe they will finally soften to the idea. WotC could also change the Limited Edition pricepoint to encourage different things as needed.

Are retailers complaining about Dragon+? Maybe WotC shoud cut Dragon+ too. Now LGSs will lose revenue on magazines because everyone gets their WotC advertisements online !
 
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Istbor

Dances with Gnolls
Personally I have been almost too busy playing 5e to really stick my head up and take a high level view of how 5e is doing. From the little I have seen and heard, it is doing well.

At the end of the day, my players are having fun playing it, and I am having fun running it. That is all that matters to me. Not one suggestion of another campaign in a new system since we started 5e campaigns back when the playtest started up. Sounds like a success to me in those narrow terms.
 

darjr

I crit!
Personally I have been almost too busy playing 5e to really stick my head up and take a high level view of how 5e is doing. From the little I have seen and heard, it is doing well.

At the end of the day, my players are having fun playing it, and I am having fun running it. That is all that matters to me. Not one suggestion of another campaign in a new system since we started 5e campaigns back when the playtest started up. Sounds like a success to me in those narrow terms.

Say it again. Looks like I'm going to add another day to the weekly schedule.
 

devincutler

Explorer
Personally I have been almost too busy playing 5e to really stick my head up and take a high level view of how 5e is doing. From the little I have seen and heard, it is doing well.

At the end of the day, my players are having fun playing it, and I am having fun running it. That is all that matters to me. Not one suggestion of another campaign in a new system since we started 5e campaigns back when the playtest started up. Sounds like a success to me in those narrow terms.

Agreed. I am running both 5th edition and a legacy 3.5 campaign that is high level and finishing up. The 3.5 party of PCs is 5 spellcasters with some cohorts (all but one of which are spellcasters). The psion can easily have an AC in the mid 60s (at 17th level) and the multiclassed paladin has saves in the almost +40 range at 17th level. The other PCs have ACs in the high 30s or low 40s and saves in the high +20s or los +30s.

There is literally nothing I can take right out of the books and throw at them outside of epic monsters way over their EL. This means I have to customize every single creature and encounter, and in 3.5 even as good as I am stating monsters and bosses, it takes friggin' forever. Hours and hours to design a single battle (which, fortunately due to the massive layers of spell buffs and complexity of playing high level spellcasters in 3.5 means those combats take forever to run too....a half hour per round of combat is fast for them).

OTOH, with BA in 5e I can pluck monsters out of the books straight away and design interesting combats and, MORE IMPORTANTLY, design scenarios and storylines that involve more than massive fights that take multiple sessions to finish.

In short, once I finish with this current 3.5 campaign I will NEVER look back. 5e is a godsend to me. Having been DMing D&D for 41 years now, I can say that, so far, 5th edition is the best, easiest, and most pleasing version to run.
 




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