D&D 5E State of D&D

Laznabog

First Post
Technically, it's not that new. Sure, in 2e you needed a spell (Sense Shifting) to re-skin magic, and nothing else was really up for grabs that way, but even in 1e there were some weapons that would stand in for eachother (the scimitar also included saber & tulwar - stuff like that). In 3.x it was official that you could describe your character how you liked - so race and gear could be re-fluffed all you wanted. 4e took that to 'powers' (spells, maneuvers, magic items &c), as well - fluff & crunch were virtually independent of eachother, as long as you didn't change a mechanical keyword (so you couldn't change a spell into a maneuver, for instance).
5e's actually back-peddled from that level of re-fluffing, FWIW, there's more places in the rules where fluff and crunch are 'entangled' with eachother. But you can still do it, even as a player, and the DM has unlimited license to mess with the crunch, as well (also not new, but not something that had not been much encouraged in the prior two editions).

I skipped 4e, with the exception of 2 or 3 games. I don't recall anything about reskinning being cool for 3, but that is not to say it isn't somewhere in the books, it just wasn't used in any of the groups I ever played with.



And the DM, of course - ultimately, how 'balanced' the game is, in play, is on his shoulders.

I was including DMs in the group of some people that like official crunch for balance. Making up unbalanced things for enemies is easily remedied, but allowing homebrew player options can open a can of worms. Am I being biased towards person X? Am I overcompensating for my desire to not seem biased towards person X? Did I not properly anticipate the interactions of Y? Official player crunch alleviates a lot of these concerns.
 

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Valador

First Post
As someone who loathes bloat, I prefer the slow release schedule. I think the core books were done well enough that there's no need for splat books any time soon. Adventures and campaign guides, in my opinion. I don't want to see 5E go down the path of Pathfinder (no pun intended) of having a million different books of crunch.

I honestly don't see how people can run out of entertainment so fast with what's available. Home brew is the way to go if you want to do something original. If you don't have time for that, then you probably don't even have time to run a proper adventure path without it feeling very boring and dry. Either way, if you really have that little time, then HOW are you already bored with the game and have ran out of things to do in it given so little time to play it?

People seemed to be so spoiled and want instant gratification and give off the impression that they're actually offended by a "lack of" things given to them by WOTC.

If bloat and endless seas of crunch and numbers and calculus is what you want, there's a game for you already. It's called Pathfinder. You can probably buy a few books, per month, for a few years, to keep you satisfied and your wallet pillaged.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
I skipped 4e, with the exception of 2 or 3 games. I don't recall anything about reskinning being cool for 3, but that is not to say it isn't somewhere in the books, it just wasn't used in any of the groups I ever played with.
I'm surprised, it was fairly prominent in 3e, even if it did apply only to appearance & gear. The whole katana/bastard-sword thing was predicated on it, really. ;)

I was including DMs in the group of some people that like official crunch for balance. Making up unbalanced things for enemies is easily remedied, but allowing homebrew player options can open a can of worms. Am I being biased towards person X? Am I overcompensating for my desire to not seem biased towards person X? Did I not properly anticipate the interactions of Y? Official player crunch alleviates a lot of these concerns.
Official crunch in 5e would still only be as balanced as the DM makes it. I certainly understand wanting more material, though, and, yes, especially crunch. Not so much because I can count on it being balanced or expect RAW to be adhered to, but because it puts us all on the same page, as a starting point, when it comes to the many things that 5e hasn't covered yet.

Is it possible you're succumbing to various biases, including confirmation bias and negativity bias?
With a name like 'Corpsetaker?'

As someone who loathes bloat, I prefer the slow release schedule. I think the core books were done well enough that there's no need for splat books any time soon. Adventures and campaign guides, in my opinion. I don't want to see 5E go down the path of Pathfinder (no pun intended) of having a million different books of crunch.
Mostly in agreement, though there are a couple of obvious omissions, like the psion & warlord, and some previously-supported styles that aren't as well-covered as they should be, even with DMG options. Two splats in two years could probably take care of it.

I honestly don't see how people can run out of entertainment so fast with what's available.
If everything available is to your taste, that'd be hard. If you're excited to explore all the different caster classes, for instance, you'll be at it for years...

I felt like I never got to play all the character concepts 3.x sparked for me, and I could play 4e for decades (in part, because 1-30 campaigns actually work, and take a long, long time - currently over 4 years into a campaign, and they're just hitting 18th), there are even 1e character's I like to go back and reprise once in a while. For the most extreme example, I could never run out of things to do with the 1989 version of Hero System, and that required only the one (really big) book.

So I can agree that the 'need' for constant supplementation is overblown.


People seemed to be so spoiled and want instant gratification
It's just my personal experience, but I've literally been hearing that my whole life. And not just from contemporary sources. Older generations have been saying that sort of thing about younger generations for a long time.

and give off the impression that they're actually offended by a "lack of" things given to them by WOTC.
Yeah, there's a little history to that sort of reaction. I don't know if you can still find Mearl's 'Gnome Effect' editorial, that gives a fairly gentle explanation of it.

If bloat and endless seas of crunch and numbers and calculus is what you want, there's a game for you already. It's called Pathfinder.
That's another side of the same phenomenon. 5e was supposed to be a more 'inclusive' edition, indeed, it was one way the rev-roll was justified, so, anytime someone decides (or is told) to go play another edition, that's an existential failure for 5e.
 

hejtmane

Explorer
That's another side of the same phenomenon. 5e was supposed to be a more 'inclusive' edition, indeed, it was one way the rev-roll was justified, so, anytime someone decides (or is told) to go play another edition, that's an existential failure for 5e.

See that's the part you did not say who was the target audience of 'inclusive' because no game will be 100% to everyone. WOTC had a target audience who was that group ?
 



lobo316

First Post
As someone who loathes bloat, I prefer the slow release schedule. I think the core books were done well enough that there's no need for splat books any time soon. Adventures and campaign guides, in my opinion. I don't want to see 5E go down the path of Pathfinder (no pun intended) of having a million different books of crunch.

I honestly don't see how people can run out of entertainment so fast with what's available. Home brew is the way to go if you want to do something original. If you don't have time for that, then you probably don't even have time to run a proper adventure path without it feeling very boring and dry. Either way, if you really have that little time, then HOW are you already bored with the game and have ran out of things to do in it given so little time to play it?

People seemed to be so spoiled and want instant gratification and give off the impression that they're actually offended by a "lack of" things given to them by WOTC.

If bloat and endless seas of crunch and numbers and calculus is what you want, there's a game for you already. It's called Pathfinder. You can probably buy a few books, per month, for a few years, to keep you satisfied and your wallet pillaged.

I'm with you on the bloat, but I'm not talking books for the sake of books. I think I'd be happy with one "flavor" book (adventure site, setting material, ect) and/or one "crunch book" (additional monster manuals, small modules, items books) per year, in addition to the adventure paths they are doing.

The Sword Coast is a good start for the "flavor" book for the year (im espeically interested in the new backgrounds, one of my favorite aspects of 5e), but now I would love to see a crunch book. I don't think asking for one or two books a year, in addition to the mega-adventure paths they are doing, is asking a lot, nor can I see how that would be considered "bloat" or flooding the market or whatever you want to call it.

I do like "official" crunch. It does take some of the pressure off the DM to have additional material/rules/crunch backed up by the publisher.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
"Everyone who ever loved D&D."

No, really, kumbaya as that sounds, Mearls actually said it.

You do know the 4venger type group was really really small as an overall % of the D&D fanbase and 5E was never really going to appeal to them anyway (or the most hardcore of the grognards, or 3E players either).

And by hardcore I mean someone who has already decided 1E, 4E or whatever is the best edition no matter what.
 

lobo316

First Post
You do know the 4venger type group was really really small as an overall % of the D&D fanbase and 5E was never really going to appeal to them anyway (or the most hardcore of the grognards, or 3E players either).

And by hardcore I mean someone who has already decided 1E, 4E or whatever is the best edition no matter what.

Funny...I actually think 5e is the best edition so far, and I've been playing since basic/expert. In hindsight, I think 2nd edition was my "2nd favorite" incarnation of the D&D rules system.
 

darjr

I crit!
I think the Moldvey set is the best edition. However I sure do like 5th a ton. Its in the running for me that's for sure.
 

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