Stats Have Suffered From Inflation

[JRRNeiklot]

Wha?! Huh?

AD&D1/2
12 = +0
18/00 = +3 attack, +6 damage
3 and 6 points of difference

D&D3
12 = +1
19 = +4
3 points of difference


Quasqueton

Yeah, but that's just about as high as you can get in 1e.

3e: 12 = +1
30 = +10

9 points of difference.

Not too hard to do even better.

18 strength, +5 level ups, +6 belt, +5 book = 34, that's not even counting the horror that polymorph brings to the table.

 

[Quasqueton]

Yeah, but that's just about as high as you can get in 1e.

3e: 12 = +1
30 = +10

9 points of difference.

Not too hard to do even better.

18 strength, +5 level ups, +6 belt, +5 book = 34, that's not even counting the horror that polymorph brings to the table.

AD&D1: 25 Strength = +7 attack, +14 damage (averages out to about +10)

12 Strength, +0 level ups, belt of titan strength = 25

Quasqueton

 

[Storm Raven]

Yeah, but that's just about as high as you can get in 1e.

Not really. 1e had Girdles of Giant Strength, which could vault your Strength score as high as 25 quite easliy.

 

[Crothian]

and wishes could easily be used to increase scores as wishes seemed to grow on trees in those mid to high level modules.

 

[Silverleaf]

I never saw anyone "freak out" because of a 17 in an ability. In B/ED&D, a 17 Strength was +3 (just like in D&D3). In AD&D, a 17 Strength was +1. I never saw anyone with a high roll of 17 play as a fighter; as Geoff Watson said, a fighter needed an 18/?? Strength to matter. And guantlets of ogre power (18/00) and belts of giant strength (19-25) were as common for mid- to high-level fighters in B/ED&D and AD&D as they are now.

AD&D and Basic are actually quite different. AD&D chargen is 4d6, drop lowest and arrange as desired, whereas Basic D&D chargen is 3d6-in-order. Needless to say, a 17 in Basic is an occasion to rejoice, not something to pout about because you don't have an 18.

In general, the modifiers in Basic D&D go like this:

  18 : +3
16-17: +2
13-15: +1
 9-12: 0
 6-8 : -1
 4-5 : -2
  3  : -3

But the scale is slightly different for some thing that are rolled on 1d6 (initiative) or 2d6 (reaction & morale) instead of d20. And there is no 18/xx (aka exceptional) STR.

Also in Basic, the gauntlets don't give a bonus. Instead, they just change your /effective/ STR to 18 (hence no benefit if you already had 18 STR). Similarly, the girdle gives you the same chances to-hit as a hill giant (hence no effect if your BAB+STR were already as good or better), though it does let you roll double damage for your weapon (eg, 2d6 instead of 1d6).

Generally speaking, Basic D&D doesn't care about ability scores outside of the 3-18 range. The Immortals boxed set changed that for immortals, but that's a different game altogether, and it's part of Mentzer's BECM edition rather than the earlier B/X books.

 

[Hypersmurf]

By the same token, while there is more controversy over high IQ's (many players and DM's I know generally assume Int = IQ/10, a little crude, but it's popular and generally fits), the current Guinness record holder is Marilyn Vos Savant with 228 (it also depends on the test and such, there is controvery here, but just for the sake of this argument 228 fits well), which when divided by 10 comes to between 22 and 23, again as high as a human character can go without magical aid or going Epic.

Age modifiers...

-Hyp.

 

[Staffan]

AD&D and Basic are actually quite different. AD&D chargen is 4d6, drop lowest and arrange as desired, whereas Basic D&D chargen is 3d6-in-order.

The default method in AD&D was 3d6 in order. 4d6-drop-lowest was probably the most common method though, at least in 2e.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Don't forget Method V, from 1E Unearthed Arcana.

Step 1. You're human.
Step 2. Choose a class - say, fighter.
Step 3. Roll 9d6-drop-6 for Str, 8d6-drop-5 for Con, 7d6-drop-4... down to 3d6 for Int.

-Hyp.

 

[MerricB]

A few notes:

The stats in the Rogue's Gallery have no relation to what Gary Gygax's characters actually had. They are the inventions of Brian Blume (and others). Gary's never actually allowed any of us in on the actual stats of his PCs.

The 4d6 system of chargen (as well as other variants) was added because players didn't like playing characters with every stat of 9 or lower, and would "suicide" their PCs until they got a good one - or just give up the game altogether.

The pregen characters in the Adventure Path began with a highest stat of 15! That's not really that high. In 3e, your beginning stats aren't as important as what you can get them to.

Cheers!

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

I remember playing D&D in the 80's and the players freaking out cause the brick of the party had a 17 Str. Now it seems that players are used to 20, 21 or even 22 Str and a fighter type with a 17 Str is merely laughed at for being weak. Is this just my group or is it in other places too?

In many ways you simply cannot compare one version of D&D with another because the numbers just don't mean the same things. 15 str in 1E does not mean the same thing as it does in 3E, and certainly an 18/59 str in 1E means absolutely NOTHING in 3E because the two games are using utterly incompatible stat progressions. A fighter with +12 to hit in 3E can't be compared directly to a fighter with +12 to hit in 2E because how they GOT that bonus and how much good it will actually do them is just not the same. The different versions have different HD for monsters, provide different amounts of damage and healing, calculate xp and advancement differently, use different bonuses, and on and on and on. And in the case of the accepted value totals of magical equipment for a given character 3E has established a standard where none of the previous versions ever even did, making any comparison that relies on influence of magical adjustments questionable because there are no standardized values for older versions that can be used in baseline comparisons.

So yes you might say that things are different now than they were - but then the entire GAME is different now than it was. Simply noting and remarking that "stats are higher" says absolutely nothing about whether those stats are UNDULY inflated.

Then again, it might just be you. I certainly can't remember a stat for PC's in my games over 20 and those were likely achieved only by bumping it up a point or two through level advancement. Even if there has been and I'm just not remembering it, it's not relevant - it's not something that has had any kind of inappropriate repurcussion as regards the rest of the game.