Stats, PC's and the effect on a Campaign

[Sir Whiskers]

You're right, the average with 4d6, drop lowest is from 12-13 (my bad).

I just wanted to make sure others understood that using cards is not quite the same as dice. For GM's (and players) who worry that one character will, through lucky die rolls, dominate play, this is a very effective method for generating stats. And, as you indicated, the bell curve can be adjusted by adding/subtracting certain cards, or specifying that certain cards have a different value (all 1's become 2's, for example).

 

[Anditch]

I got an idea

I suggest that we use D20s quick and easy too

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

My suggestion: just go point buy (DMG).

32 points for normal PH race-characters or +1 ECL race with +1 ECL.
26 points for +1 ECL race (Aasmar, tiefling, etc) but no ECL.
26 points for a normal character with 1 level of an NPC class (Warrior, Expert, Aristocrat, Adept; doesn't count for xp purposes).
38 points for PH race characters with +1 ECL

That lets people play the character they want to but also gives people the option to play a wider variety of characters--a grizzled veteran who starts with more experience than other characters (NPC level), a young and inexperienced but incredibly gifted character (38 point or other ECL character).

Looking at the stats you provided, they're worth at least +2 ECL WRT the challenges the PCs face (based on my experience running a 36 point buy game) and don't appear to have reduced the "min-maxing" supposedly more prevalent in point buy systems. Fortunately, they're pretty even in terms of power so any power differential will be because of player choices and not because of the initial stat roll.

 

[Endur]

36 point buy

As a gm, I like point buy.

4d6 is unpredictable. Yesterday I rolled a 4d6 (re-roll 1's character).
stats were 18, 16,16,15,14,13.

For a point buy, that works out to 55 points. And I don't think I was particularly lucky.

For point buys, what do I recommend?
15 points ... Joe average (3 10's and 3 11's)
25 points ... DMG NPC (15,14,13,12,10,8)
28 points ... Living Greyhawk
or
36 points ... above average (all 14's or some variation)

15 points makes for an interesting spread in stats among the party, but it can be a bit brutal. Probably better for a one-shot adventure than a long-term adventure.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Almost the same here:
We rolled stats for our d20 Modern (StarGate) campaign game today, and even though I requested Point Buy, we rolled the chars (7 * 4d6, drop lowest, then raise a single score except 18). The others got an equivalent of 36 point buy, but I got 18,17,14,14,14,13, and endet up with two 18s (actually 1 19, since we start at lv 6). That's 55 points, too.

IMO the most funny part is that it was me suggesting PointBuy so we all had equal stats.

It's the 1st time I put such a high score into Con.

 

[Hackenslash]

Hey, Thanks Alot for all your Advice and Suggestions.

Hello agian all,

Thanks again to all of you who have contributed your thoughts and syggestions on character generation. I think that I will re-examine my own point buying method, but will be using a version of point buying, as I feel that that is the way to go for fairness and overall balancing of characters,ie. no one if left with a poorly rolled character. As to the challenges for the players, well that won't be a problem as I have ordered BoVD and MM2 and have recently aquired Savage Species so if I do end up with Super Heros then they will have to come up against super villains. Anyway I am playing with the Idea of using "Full Point Buy" system. eg. every player gets 78 points to assign where they wish, with no stat being below 8 and no stat being above 18, not including racial modifiers. That would give an average score of 13 per stat. So I think that this would work out reasonably and would allow characters to play more or less anything they wanted, but without stats getting crazily high in all categories. Basically because the lowest a stat can be is 8 so it forces the player to put 8 points on a stat etc...So they have to economise if they put a whopping 18 on a stat it leaves them less to play with. Any further thoughts please let me know...Thanks again all

 

[Bauglir]

Sounds like you're employing a linear point buy system (ie raising a stat from 17-18 costs the same as raising it from 8-9)

The point buy system in the DMG suggests a scaled system, where the higher you bring a stat, the more costly it gets to raise it. This system has the virtue of discouraging min-maxing (to get an 18 in one stat you will have to pay for it from multiple other stats)

I can't remember the page number but it's somewhere in the twenties iirc (IDHTBIFOM) - have a look and see what you think.

 

[Azul]

Organic system.

4d6, drop lowest, in order. Player gets one reroll and one swap. This forces players to deal with high or low stats in interesting places but still allows you to play most concepts. If anyone rolls a dismal character, roll again and average stat by stat. Let them decide what is dismal, as it will only move them closer to statistical average.

Strait from the DMG, yep. I've used this system in my last 2 campaigns. My players love it. It produces fairly strong PCs but with interesting flaws. Characters do not end up looking like your generic min-maxed point-buy PCs. You will see 7s and 8s turning up now and then, often in non-critical stats (but not always in the obvious dump stat for the class). Every once in a while, an oddball high stat appears in a stat that is atypical for the class.

For example, the party wizard has 16 strength (and as a result, he wields his club very effectively). The party monk has high Str and Con, but middling Dex and Wis (still works out to a decent monk... just more hard hitting and less defensive).

 

[Hackenslash]

Just Experimenting !!!

I am just experimenting with the Linear Point buy system, I have not definitely decided which way to go, but I think that having to Pay more points for a higher stat than what the stat is actually worth is a bit unfair. I am aware of min/maxing but sometimes it is unavoidable especially in the type of group I play in. I mean we had a Weapon Master whose weapon of choice was a Sythe, and the only reason he chose this was because it has a high critical multiplyer, now who hasn't chosen a weapon that does more damage than another even if it did not fit the character more....well come on now be honest. I have also min/max'ed too and the main reason for min/maxing is to get the best character possible, there is nothing inherently wrong with this, it just requires a little more work in campaign design and monster development. Also you can always limit the amount and strength of magic items given untill they get to such a level that stats are no longer important and experience counts more due to levels and abilites. So that is why I am experimenting with linear point buying as it is straight forward and no one gets left out and if the players do min/max, then I will tailor the campaign accordingly with all my monsters min/max'ed too. Fair enough ? (Evil Laugh to Follow...hahahahaha)

 

[Conaill]

I'd strongly recommend not using a linear point-buy. Just because min-maxing is "unavoidable" doesn't mean you have to encourage it!

If you want something simpler than the point-buy table in the DMG, here's an alternative:

All stats start at 14. You can trade points between stats freely using a 2-for-1 deal, but no lower than 8 and no higher than 18.