Steps to an ad-hoc skill challenge

[hong]

Doesn't seem too hard to whip up a skill challenge on the fly.

1. Decide the objective. This should not be something immediate, but longer-term. Things like "traverse the wilderness to get to the city", "find out more about the town's troubles", "learn the secrets of how to build a skyship", for example.

2. Decide the difficulty (moderate is default)

3. Decide the complexity (3 = 8 succ/4 fail)

4. Decide which skills don't apply (if you're a hardass DM)

5. Profit!

 

[Torchlyte]

Hehehe...

Heh. Heh.

Haha.

Muahahahaha!

Yeah, it shouldn't be too hard to make a proper skill challenge, bad examples notwithstanding.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Part 1 can be interesting - who sets the objective? DM or Players?

A typical scenario might be:

A) "Okay, we'll have to find someone to help us. Let's see if we can convince the Duke to help us."
B) "We could also try to bully that Thief Guild Guy into helping us. We might have enough evidence to end his little smuggling operation once and for all."
A) DM whips out the social skill challenge for "gaining trust"
B) DM whips out the social skill challenge for "extortion"

But there's also a more DM-initiated challenge.
"To get to the Temple of Doom, you will have to travel through the forest of Sumatra." (DM whips out travel challenge (forest terrain)".

 

[eleran]

Part 1 can be interesting - who sets the objective? DM or Players?

A typical scenario might be:

A) "Okay, we'll have to find someone to help us. Let's see if we can convince the Duke to help us."
B) "We could also try to bully that Thief Guild Guy into helping us. We might have enough evidence to end his little smuggling operation once and for all."
A) DM whips out the social skill challenge for "gaining trust"
B) DM whips out the social skill challenge for "extortion"

But there's also a more DM-initiated challenge.
"To get to the Temple of Doom, you will have to travel through the forest of Sumatra." (DM whips out travel challenge (forest terrain)".

You think you could combine A and B to be 1 skill challenege titled "get help"? Either successively or simultaneously the group seeks help from both the Duke and the TGG.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

You think you could combine A and B to be 1 skill challenege titled "get help"? Either successively or simultaneously the group seeks help from both the Duke and the TGG.

If the group notices both possibilities, yes. It's not uncommon for players to miss things that seem obvious to the DM (and instead do something that is crazy, or at least unexpected). Skill Challenges might give you a tool to handle both situations.

 

[eleran]

If the group notices both possibilities, yes. It's not uncommon for players to miss things that seem obvious to the DM (and instead do something that is crazy, or at least unexpected). Skill Challenges might give you a tool to handle both situations.

Good point. I guess I read your post wrong. I was under the impression the group thought of both things. But your right.

Being a long time CoC player I am a strong believer in researching things when possible also before charging in headlong to an unknown threat. Think skill challenges could be used this way also?

Players: We need to find out all we can about these creatures we keep encountering as they seem to be at the heart of this towns problem.
DM: Whip out the "Research the creatures from beyond skill challenge"
Perhaps some of the skills that could be used would be history, Knowledge (arcana, Religion, Planes, etc.), streetwise (gather info), stealth (for spying on them), Intimidate (if someone is knowingly in league with them), Diplo. Disallow Athletics just to piss off Celebrim and Derren.

 

[Domon]

If the group notices both possibilities, yes. It's not uncommon for players to miss things that seem obvious to the DM (and instead do something that is crazy, or at least unexpected). Skill Challenges might give you a tool to handle both situations.

well, even if the group does not notice both possibilities, a skill challenge with the stake "get help" may still lead to both, and more if the DM is not anal retentive, based simply on player descriptions.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Good point. I guess I read your post wrong. I was under the impression the group thought of both things. But your right.

Being a long time CoC player I am a strong believer in researching things when possible also before charging in headlong to an unknown threat. Think skill challenges could be used this way also?

Players: We need to find out all we can about these creatures we keep encountering as they seem to be at the heart of this towns problem.
DM: Whip out the "Research the creatures from beyond skill challenge"
Perhaps some of the skills that could be used would be history, Knowledge (arcana, Religion, Planes, etc.), streetwise (gather info), stealth (for spying on them), Intimidate (if someone is knowingly in league with them), Diplo. Disallow Athletics just to piss off Celebrim and Derren.

Now, the last sentence is just mean. But strangely, I feel the need to approve.

But otherwise: Sure they can. You just have to figure out what the skill challenge is supposed to help you. Knowledge can be power, but it might be nice if you get actual things that can help you mechanically. If you figure out that there are a lot of fire-resistant creatures, the group might find a scroll to supress this ability (but maybe only enough to use it only if it counts) as part or result of the challenge. The challenge could give you information on the layout of the lair (where does the Gnome hide the Badger?), or weaknesses of unknown monsters (Cold Iron or Silver vs Ice Devils?). You could keep the benefits abstract, and just say thanks to their information, they avoid random encounters, or at least are confronted with easier ones.

In the Horrosh (sp?) Realm of Torg, many monsters had a "True Death" - there was only one way to really kill a monster, and anything else could just take it out for a short time. Researching a True Death was part of the adventure. You could use a similar idea for some monster adventures, and require a skill challenge for determining the True Death of a monster. A failure off course doesn't mean you don't find the solution (or at least doesn't have to), but it might not work as well as it could, or have side effects. Maye you bless a crossbow bolt to fight a Rakasha, but then find out that the blessing didn#t work perfectly, and you need multiple shots (giving the Rakasha time to kill you or some innocents, or run away, preparing an ambush for later).

 

[eleran]

In the Horrosh (sp?) Realm of Torg,

OK, this makes me curious. Having heard a lot of jokes about Torg, but never having cracked a cover of any Torg book, how was that game?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

OK, this makes me curious. Having heard a lot of jokes about Torg, but never having cracked a cover of any Torg book, how was that game?

I haven't played it intensively, but members in my group played it a lot (before 3E appeared, at a time where the game was still supported).

From what I saw, it was awesome, but you had to get into a specific mindset (not really compatible with the 3E mindset) to play it well. It has a certain "anything-goes"/"over-the-top"/"pulp" style.

I suggest creating a thread on it in the General RPG Discussion Forum on the topic, since this will lead off-topic. There's also a Wikipedia Entry (it was discussed a few weeks ago on th General RPG boards)

Talking about 4E and different design "techniques" or subsystems, I am always reminded of Torg (not that 4E is "stealing" much from it, but when you're exploring RPG design spaces, you will always find some good solutions in Torg).
Interesting tidbits:
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- Fast Gameplay. You roll only a single dice per round, that stands for all your actions (and you can take multiple, at a penalty). You get some rerolls, but most of the time, it's just one roll.
- Logarithmic Conversion Table to convert everything to everything - km/h to m/sec to kg to currency units.
- Use of non-weapon skills to perform "attacks" (taunt, test of wills, maneuver) and actually take out your foes.
- Card-based initiative system (Drama Deck) that supports "dramatic" and regular encounters, declares actions that grant benefits. A "regular" encounter is where your party mows down 20 shock troopers with 20 rounds of ammo. A dramatic encounter is where you fight two Ninjas (or the arch villain) and get your ass handed to you...
- Drama Deck is also used for handling something similar to 4E skill challenges.
- Drama Deck Cards also include "Plot" Cards, that allow a player with a card to influence the plot - play a Romance, Connection or Idea Card to forward the plot, or use a Martyr card to rescue your friends/the world, sacrificing yourself.
- Earth is invaded by several realities (Orrorsh is one of them), and the heroes (Stormriders) are "possibility"-rated, able to move between the realities and have the chance to alter the course of the world, stopping the evil overlords of the various realities.
- The Possibilities of characters basically are a kind of "hit point" or "plot-protection point" for PCs. In combat for example, they can be used to reduce damage taken.
- Combine Elven Wizard with Cyberaugmented Priest with ordinary (Core Earth) human private eye and a Superhero to a party of adventurers (Storm-Riders), all equally capable of fighting the good fight.
- Each Reality has different Axiom Levels for things like Social, Technological, Magical and Religious Development, determining the kind of social structure, technologies or magic and dinve powers are usually available in the setting. Each Realm also has its own "Laws", that you can invoke to gain benefits when in that Cosmos for goals pertaining to that Law, but sometimes also just set the feel of the setting - Nippon Tech laws include a Law that tells you that 10 % of all members in any random organisation are traitors to it, so expect a lot of betrayal and back-stabbing when working in Nippon Tech...
[/sblock]
All in all, I think Torg was pretty innovative.