Still Mind vs. Gibbering Mouther

[ForceUser]

Last night my DM ruled that a monk's Still Mind class feature did not work verses the gibbering mouther's gibbering power, because that power was a supernatural ability and not a spell or spell-like effect. By the strict letter of the rule, did he err?

 

[Diirk]

Still Mind (Ex): A monk of 3rd level or higher gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against spells and effects from the school of enchantment.

and

Gibbering (Su): As soon as a mouther spots something edible, it begins a constant gibbering as a free action. All creatures (other than mouthers) within a 60-foot spread must succeed on a DC 13 Will save or be affected as though by a confusion spell for 1d2 rounds. This is a sonic mind-affecting compulsion effect. A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected by the same gibbering mouther’s gibbering for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.

The Gibbering may not be spell or spell-like ability, but note that Still Mind applies to all spells and effects.. not merely just spells and spell-like abilities. Su abilities are also effects, so it applies vs them too.

 

[AuraSeer]

Strictly speaking he was correct. Still Mind protects against "spells and effects from the school of enchantment," but the mouther's gibbering is not of any school. Though it happens to have the same results as the enchantment spell confusion, it is not itself an enchantment effect.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The DM was correct in his ruling, though a more lenient DM might very well alter the monk ability to, "a +2 saving throw bonus on Will saves against mind-affecting effects."

This would, understandably, make the ability much more powerful.

 

[ForceUser]

Hrm. Valid points, but the text of gibbering also states:

"This is a sonic, mind-affecting compulsion effect." (emphasis mine)

As stated on page 291 of the DMG, a compulsion effect is an enchantment; thus, Still Mind should apply.

 

[Darkness]

"This is a sonic, mind-affecting compulsion effect." (emphasis mine)

As stated on page 291 of the DMG, a compulsion effect is an enchantment; thus, Still Mind should apply.

That's my take on it as well.

By the way, did you still make the save? If not, would still mind have saved you?

 

[AuraSeer]

As stated on page 291 of the DMG, a compulsion effect is an enchantment; thus, Still Mind should apply.

Not exactly. The text says that some enchantment spells are compulsions; it does not state that all compulsions are enchantments.

If you had already made up your mind that the DM was wrong, why did you ask the question?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

As stated on page 291 of the DMG, a compulsion effect is an enchantment; thus, Still Mind should apply.

That is an incorrect reading.

Specifically, the Compulsion subschool is a subschool of the Enchantment school. Therefore, any spell that is a part of the Compulsion subschool is a spell or spell-like ability of the Enchantment school. For instance:

Calm Emotions
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]

Therefore, you are still wrong.

 

[ForceUser]

Not exactly. The text says that some enchantment spells are compulsions; it does not state that all compulsions are enchantments.

If you had already made up your mind that the DM was wrong, why did you ask the question?

My mind isn't made up; I am simply leaning in the other direction.

EDIT - let's not go the route of personal insults, please. Thanks. -Henry

 

[dcollins]

I'm also in the camp of, "yes, apply the monk's bonus". If the Gibbering ability acts "as though by a confusion spell", then it's an effect that acts like an enchantment.

Supernatural effects, too, can have school descriptors. Consider magically enhanced weapons (supernatural as per the spell resistance description), which are in the Evocation school (per DMG magic item chapter).