Still no updated FORSAKER?!

[Felix]

On top of all that, I'd like to point out that, IMHO, a person whose central philosophy in a world where magic is practically a natural force, and a commonly used and widely accepted tool is to hate and despise all things magical, is like a person in the modern world who hates and despises the force of gravity, and those other forces that physicists have discovered, and on which technology and other such things are commonly based. Such a person would be seen by many people as, frankly, insane, and probably not tolerated.

I think perhaps that the analogy with gravity makes less sense than a comparison to technology or international trade. Yes, magic is an integral part of the world, but people can choose to live without it in the same way we today can choose to live without computers or reasonably-priced textiles from China.

As much as someone may fight against technology replacing manual labor (generally resulting in a lower price for the end-user), or fight against outsourcing jobs overseas (generally resulting in the same), the Forsaker may see magic in his world as a real but unnecessary and corrupting influence on humanity. This is not to say that he is right in his crusade, but rather that his position is perhaps more understandable from this point of view.

At very least, some militant anti-technologists and trade-isolationists have been accused of being sane; may the Forsaker not benefit from that same indulgence?

I don't see why such a person should gain a benefit from decrying such primal, powerful, all-encompassing forces of nature.

I get a kick out of rooting against the Yankees.

 

[GreatLemur]

I've heard some very good things about Iron Heroes.

How do they do the Foresaker thing "right"?

Basically, they made a bunch of base classes that are so powerful they don't need magic, and interesting enough that you won't even miss it. I wouldn't call any of it particularly compatible with regular 3.5, though.

 

[Whimsical]

I've heard some very good things about Iron Heroes.

How do they do the Foresaker thing "right"?

Thanks, -- N

Ya. In Iron Heroes, at 20th level you are still using a MW weapon, MW armor, no magic items, and are as destructive as a tarrasque.

In Arcana Evolved, there is the "party friendly" forsaker called the Oathsworn. Basically he doesn't use magic items or any items whatsoever. But he doesn't hold the rest of the party back. If the party is using a magic carpet to go somewhere, he will go with the party. Although he doesn't use items, magic or otherwise, he can accept magic spells and even multiclass with a spellcasting class.

The Oathsworn: It's likely that the oathsworn will be compared to the D&D monk. Both use unarmed combat and gain special abilities that allow them to use their bodies as weapons. In play, however, the oathsworn feels very different. An oathsworn swears to do something, sets a goal for himself, and then does it. And woe to anyone that stands between him and the completion of his goal. Even things like hunger, fatigue, and walls of iron can't stand in their way. They see weapons, armor, and even tools (to an extent) as a crutch. Like the totem warrior, the oathsworn is a combination of the "skillful guy" and the "tough guy."

 

[kilamanjaro]

.. a person in the modern world who hates and despises the force of gravity...

Gravity gets me down.

 

[Nifft]

Gravity gets me down.

There is no gravity!
The Earth sucks.

-- N

 

[Crothian]

where magic is practically a natural force, and a commonly used and widely accepted tool i

The problem with this is that it assumes magic is commonly used and widely accepted.

 

[Stalker0]

I think perhaps that the analogy with gravity makes less sense than a comparison to technology or international trade. Yes, magic is an integral part of the world, but people can choose to live without it in the same way we today can choose to live without computers or reasonably-priced textiles from China.

As much as someone may fight against technology replacing manual labor (generally resulting in a lower price for the end-user), or fight against outsourcing jobs overseas (generally resulting in the same), the Forsaker may see magic in his world as a real but unnecessary and corrupting influence on humanity. This is not to say that he is right in his crusade, but rather that his position is perhaps more understandable from this point of view.

However, this is not the flavor the mechanics of Forsaker promote.

It would be more like: I hate international trade, so I go around and blow up every measure of international trade I can find. And when I do, millions of dollars flow into my pocket. But I have to spend the money quickly, because it evaporates after a certain amount of time. Then I have to go out and destroy trade in order to get more money.

That's a forsaker.

 

[Stalker0]

The problem with this is that it assumes magic is commonly used and widely accepted.

Which is the standard assumption in the default dnd world.

 

[Nifft]

In Arcana Evolved, there is the "party friendly" forsaker called the Oathsworn.

I've played AE and never noticed this correlation. You're absolutely right! The Oathsworn is a great example of a Foresaker done right.

Thanks, -- N

 

[Crothian]

Which is the standard assumption in the default dnd world.

No, I don't think it is. Using the craft and professions rules to see what people make and then look at the price of magic. Magic is just too expensive for it to be common. The books also don't say anything on if magic is accepted or not. The game focuses on adventures and leaves everything else in a vague grey area and it has always been one of the failures of D&D.